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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject:
...but knowing where a speed camera is (or might be), doesn't automatically mean that we all speed, although it can give us peace of mind and let us concentrate on other aspects of driving and what's going on around us.
When was the last time you saw a police officer in your neighbourhood??
How far do you have to travel before you see a 'safety' camera?
PLUS, if safety is the aim, why are there not more enforcers outside schools stopping people double parking, parking illegally etc and why are there not more 'safety' cameras outside schools, where there is an increased risk?
The road where I live has become MORE DANGEROUS and has attracted more 'boy racers' since the council implimented so called safety measures - but sitting in an office doesn't necessarily give you a picture of the real world. When I contacted the council with my concerns, they simply answered saying "we know what we're doing" and neighbours have also complained to the council, so I'm waiting for the first accident so that I can go to the press with copies of correspondence. _________________ Andy
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A friend of mine got his neighbor arrested for not practicing archery when the neighbor complained about his sunday practice session. Cool. 8)
The problem on our roads is ability to drive, not speed. Many road users fail to grasp the basics of driving correctly, and then add speed into the equation. The answer we came up with is an emotionless unmanned policing system which cannot take into account circumstances. Day, night, wet, dry, etc.
The issue we all have with speed cameras is our freedom. I'm sure that if the government spent the money on driver training, it would have exactly the same impact if not better on road statistics. _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
Joined: 17/10/2002 09:41:39 Posts: 111 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject:
WOW, all this debate on safety cameras. You don;t know how easy we have it here in the UK. Having visited a few countries in my time, I've seen police hiding in trees (Miami), cameras hidden in letter boxes and skips (South Africa), had 2 of my sat nav's confiscated in Europe (France and Switzerland), seen 6 mobile camera stations 200 meters apart (Peru) and police using their detection devices for their own personal gain (bribes, even if you've been under the speed limit).
If the government just came out and said: "We're putting up cameras to make money," we all wouldn't feel so lied to, however I do think that we're incredibly lucky that the country hasn't yet turned to sneaky trapping tactics and placing bans on using detectors.
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject:
PLUS who's to say that a speeding driver, whom the 'safety' camera detects is any more dangerous than a drink-driver whom the camera does not detect
Then there are other issues like erratic driving or road rage, which go undetected 'safety' cameras.
Greenglide wrote:
If everyone was "forced" to stick to the speed limit (even where it is not "necessary") think how many lives would be saved.
Speed limits save lives when obeyed.
If deaths are speed related, why are motorways generally our safest roads?
Are we saying that drink-drivers who stick to the speed limit do not kill?? In general, statistics show that drink-drivers may be more likely to drive slowly.
Why do statistics not show that deaths and injuries have reduced in all areas where cameras have been installed? _________________ Andy
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Would you advocate driving at 70mph on a Motorway in thick fog, or icy conditions, or in snow? You would still be observing the speed limit, but not particularly safe.
Inappropriate speed leads to road deaths or injuries, and even then it is a very small minority of deaths where speed is the major contributing factor, as the NACPO will confirm.
No camera can detect the drunk, drugged, or just plain incompetent.
Speed limits are a blunt instrument, as are cameras.
I admit that cameras go some way to improving drivers adherence to speed limits under normal driving conditions, and I do not advocate exceeding the limit, but I am sure that we are all aware of roads where the speed limit imposed is inappropriate.
The Welsh mountain road with a speed limit of 60mph when there is insufficient road width to allow two vehicles to pass, or the 40mph "worker safety" limit through Motorway roadworks, still enforced at 03:00 when all the workers are tucked up in bed. I am sure we all have our pet examples.
This preoccupation with speed and redlights as the only driving offences worth pursuing (because it only requires a bit of technology and doesn't require traffic officers) is destroying what little pleasure is left in motoring in the UK.
I have been driving for 36 years, have undergone both Fire Brigade and defensive driver training, and have never had a point on my licence, but I dislike having to spend my time with my nose pointing at the speedo to make sure that I am not one or two mph over the limit, rather than watching out for all the other hazards on the roads.
AND given that no standard vehicle speedo is accurate due to manufacturing tolerances, how do you stick to the speed limit????
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject:
worthingsaxovtr wrote:
so it seems that now more than ever we need laser sites in the camera database, including verified and non verified
Hmm, as someone who had their subscription revoked for distributing our database on other websites I'm surprised you hadn't realised we do have mobile laser sites already! _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject:
jpkeates wrote:
Speed cameras are a blunt instrument,
simply because it's all that's required.
Rubbish, they're cheap and profitable, that's why they use them.
Quote:
If you choose to drive on the roads,
you tacitly agree to obey the rules of the people that own and maintain them.
Cameras see all transgressions as black and white. It is this that annoys the average driver more than anything. No mitigating factors are taken into account, time of day, amount of traffic, weather etc.
In the same way, Traffic Wardens were originally there to ensure the flow of traffic and they did a great job. Now we have privatised parking attendants who are their to make money. Traffic Wardens did not leap on you as soon as the meter expired because that in itself did not cause a traffic issue. A Police Officer can use his judgement in deciding if your speed was dangerous and he has no financial target or bonus to achieve, a camera cannot use any judgement and is another tax. _________________ Darren Griffin
If you choose to drive on the roads,
you tacitly agree to obey the rules of the people that own and maintain them.
[Head scratcher] If the essence of driving is everyone obeying the rules so everyone understands what each is doing or going to do, and those drivers who do something out of the ordinary are then being dangerous.
Then if the majority choose to do something against the grain but each the same thing, then the few who continue to follow the rules are therefore doing something out of the ordinary and just as dangerous.
(do you keep to the limit or keep with the traffic) _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: Camera sites
Speaking as someone who has only ever had 1 speeding offence in 20+ years (38mph in a 30mph, downhill, dead straight road, no cars, people, cats, horses or other living creatures in sight, momentary lapse in speed awareness right infront of the camera), I think that this obsession with enforcement by camera is dangerous and blatently unfair. For example (apart from my crime above):
The last near accident I had (not very near, but nearer than I would like) was caused by me seeing calibration stripes on the road unexpectantly, looking down to check speed just as the guy in front braked. I looked up to find myself closing fast. As I was the correct distance behind, no damage done, but I gave a brake test to the guy behind.
The worst driving I ever see is rarely to do with speeding (over limit). Overtaking on the inside, driving too close, hassling motorists driving at just below the limit, driving too fast for the conditions.
Face it everyone, this is pure and simply about money. The change in policy just eases the gathering of it. I am tempted to write to my MP, and offer to pay on account if I get a reduction!
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject:
The onslaught MIGHT have already begun!!
As I was leaving work this evening, the place was teaming with mobile camera vans and police cars in places where there isn't usually anything - if you don't count the 6 Gatso cameras plus red light cameras in the area, that is.
There were so many that I couldn't enter their locations into my GPS (not without the cameras in the vans spotting me).
They were definitely camera vans in police livery (the letters P O L I C E down the side were a slight clue), with patrol cars loitering in the vacinity.
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