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REVIEW COMMENTS: Wayfinder P800 Preview
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:14 am    Post subject: REVIEW COMMENTS: Wayfinder P800 Preview Reply with quote

Wayfinder is a new product by Wayfinder. It's a GPS navigation system for Symbian based mobile phones, and Nokia have very recently started shipping Wayfinder and an Emtac GPS Receiver. Wayfinder is an ideal solution for those who have the latest Symbian mobile phones, because it allows you to find a street, company, restaurant, in-fact any type of Point Of Interest (POI) quickly when you're in a foreign town. Wayfinder also allows you to save your destinations you enter, or use a call center to receive personal or automatic help.

Read the full preview here.
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Billy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but a review must be complete. This is more a copy-paste list from the website of Wayfinder itself.

Why didn't you mentioned that Wayfinder still has no basic navigation options? There is still no avoid options available even in the latest version 2.0. The streetnames are most of the time not fully readable and so on.

Offcourse Wayfinder is a nice idea and if you just like to get where you want with an ugly arrow than Wayfinder will do his job fine. But you can not compare this navigation system with some others.

In mine opinion Wayfinder is more based on a S60 series. This means a less cpu power, smaller screen, no touch screen,... T

he P800/900 is more PDA phone. It is more capable for doing more things than a 3650. But Wayfinder does not use the full capacity of a P800. Which is a big shame. They can make a real GPS solution if they want.

Billy
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy,

Please note that what we have posted is a preview and not a review. The review will be along soon and will of course be as complete as we can make it.

To a certain extent you are right. I imagine Wayfinder have looked at the market and found that the S60 platform is going to be the major user base over the next year or so and have developed their app for it.

With that in mind the lowest common denominator is the determining factor for the application. The P800/900 may have more and better functionality, but would you invest lots of time and effort developing away from the mainstream hardware platform. I know I wouldnt.

I think it will be a very interesting year for mobile navigation next year. Nokia and the S60 will bring products like Wayfinder and TomTom within the reach of majr mass markets. It will be very interesting to see what the takeup will be, and where it will lead.
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Billy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeB wrote:
Billy,

Please note that what we have posted is a preview and not a review. The review will be along soon and will of course be as complete as we can make it.


I thought it. But its so strange to see a preview Smile

MikeB wrote:
The P800/900 may have more and better functionality, but would you invest lots of time and effort developing away from the mainstream hardware platform. I know I wouldnt.


Well, all I can say is from what I see and hear. Wayfinder is very poulair under the UIQ market and not so on the S60 market. Most users that buy a S60 phone are not so interested in navigation software. All they need is games and so. The UIQ users are more business users and they need such kind of software. You can see how succesfull the thread is at my-symbian in the UIQ section and then compare it with the S60 series. Or check some Dutch forums, and so...

Offcourse the S60 series reach more users but then again it's only a very little users of those phones that are interesting into this. Making a decent UIQ version would be a lot better for their sales!

TomTom citymaps are allready available for the S60 series. If someone must decide between a name that is very populair for years like TomTom or something unknown like Wayfinder than the decisision is very easy. What will happen when TomTom port their navigation system to S60 and maybe UIQ?! It's gonna be very hard days for Wayfinder.

Billy
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy,

I agree with your evaluation of the current state of the market, but I suspect that with the launch of the Nokia 6600 things will change.

This seems to be a move away from the games market and forward to the recreational/business market. Time will tell.
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Billy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't see many N6600 users buy the full gps solution of Wayfinder. If you must decide between a N6600 or a P800/900 than it will be probably be the price that make the decisision for some.

They won't spend much money on Wayfinder then. Besides the prices today for a bundle of a new PDA and TomTom2 are cheaper than buying right now a new phone with the Wayfinder GPS. You won't need an expensive gprs account and so.

Here in my country GPRS isn't cheap. It's actually quite expensive. Most users that have this are business users. This users needs a PDA/Phone and offcourse they also have the gprs account. For Wayfinder mobile mapguide you need gprs the same goes for Wayfinder mobile navigation. I really don't think that there are more gprs users under the S60 users than for example the S80 and UIQ users.

Many S60 users are a young public. Who find it nice to play some S60 games and so,... Most of them (I only speak for my country) will have a prepaid card and with such a card you cannot have the full gprs which is needed for Wayfinder. I do not think this is the public which will buy Wayfinder.

Wayfinder could do much more at the UIQ market. Most users of those phones will have the gprs account because they need it. At the moment the UIQ version of Wayfinder is practical a copy of the S60 version which is a little shame in mine opinion. The UIQ phones that are available today are having 33% more CPU power so Wayfinder can do a lot more on the UIQ version than the S60 version.

Billy
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Billy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oeps...It seems that my post was posted 2 times overhere Rolling Eyes
Feel free to delete one of them, moderator :D

Billy
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Pc-Mobile
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfinder is an idea in a niche market but I do not think it will take off.
To start with, it is too expensive for what is is worth. As the "service" requires the user to have a GPS, a BT GPS particularly. The initial hardware outlay plus the software/subscription is quite high, not to mention the phone cost.

People who need naviagtion all the time will (and much better) use PDA/software.

People who occasionally need to find their way will not want to pay a full year subscription, which is not cheap at the current rate.

It is mainly targeted for phone users. And the phone (Symbian) owner will probably change the phone in 6-9 months. With this in mind he/she may think twice about paying one year subscription, not knowing whether the next phone will support it, even if he/she still needs the sevice in a few months time.

The Wayfinder type SERVICE (it is really a service, not software) should be (and probably will) operated under location service through capable phones in the future, without the need of additional hardware (GPS) and subscription. (a small monthly subscription plus usuage billed under the phone is what I predicted)
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Billy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pc-Mobile wrote:
It is mainly targeted for phone users. And the phone (Symbian) owner will probably change the phone in 6-9 months. With this in mind he/she may think twice about paying one year subscription, not knowing whether the next phone will support it, even if he/she still needs the sevice in a few months time.


There's practical no problem with this. Wayfinder does support and probably will do in the future practical every Symbian phone. They do right now at the moment except the Motorola and BenQ. But I do not see any reason why the current UIQ version will not work on those when they are certified. Also those phones are not so populair in Europe they are more populair in Azia.

If you buy another supported phone then all you need to do is write an email to Wayfinder and you can download the new required software.

Billy.
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swing
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting preview (of the hopefully full review).

A few comments though....

1. I really think a quick test with a Bluetooth Headset should form part of the review, simply to be able to state whether or not it is possible to use both at the same time - this limitation is probably worth mentioning if it does exist.

2. I think the new law would allow the use of the phone in a cradle, which should resolve the concerns.

3. It would be nice to know how well it copes with route changes whilst driving.

4. It would be nice to know (although I think the answer is no) as to whether it can handle different vehicle types and route accordingly (large, long, heavy, towing, too high for bridges etc.)

5. It would be nice to have some real world usage figures for the GPRS (I'm sure it's not difficult - turn off email collection, note the current GPRS usage, perform a journey with a few re-routes, and note the new GPRS usage) - eg Does it constantly download via GPRS or does it download the whole details at the start of the journey - ie if you lose GPRS coverage (or the network has problems) do you immediately lose directions, or only if you go off course?

6. If I knew Duncan lived (according to his "Home" sample screen) only 3 minutes from my house I'd have been up there to help him with the review with my 3650 to provide a look at the Series 60 version too (and I plan to have some form of Bluetooth Headset / Car Kit in the near future too)

I would also echo other comments - for a service you have to pay for with an annual charge, it needs to find its market - it won't be people who travel constantly (as they are more likely to get a full Sat Nav system fitted, or use a Pocket PC with TomTom routes loaded onboard), and it won't be the casual user who only needs it once or twice a year, as it's too expensive then. I wonder if they should consider a PAYG option (like Trafficmaster do with their SmartNav system for those that do not need it all the time).

However, once they get their TMC link onboard, and can provide a route based on traffic information, they offer something over a Pocket GPS with TomTom which might be enough to make people switch - provide an option (like Traffic-I) to simply show the road delays as well, and I think the cost of the annual subscription is worthwhile.

Steve
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Billy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swing wrote:

A few comments though....

1. I really think a quick test with a Bluetooth Headset should form part of the review.


I agree. I heard that it must work but I never seen it in a sort a review that is more reliable.

swing wrote:

2. I think the new law would allow the use of the phone in a cradle, which should resolve the concerns.


Is this for a new law in the UK? In Belgium we have allready such kind of law. You must park you car and then you are allowed to use the phone. And be honest, if I route a new route with a navigation system I will always park my car first. After that I will never touch the pda/phone anymore untill I am on the destination. So their seems to be no problem at all. Even when you have park you car and the police asked what you are doing and you can show him that you _are_ using at that moment the navigation system (Wayfinder in this example) than he will probably not do much about it. We are all humans Laughing . But like I said I do not know what this new law means saw in the UK.

swing wrote:

3. It would be nice to know how well it copes with route changes whilst driving.


It copes better with going offroute than TomTom. You will get faster a new route calculated, even tough this is downloaded from the Wayfinder his server. It's faster.

swing wrote:

4. It would be nice to know (although I think the answer is no) as to whether it can handle different vehicle types and route accordingly (large, long, heavy, towing, too high for bridges etc.)


Don't expect many options in Wayfinder. AND THIS IS A SHAME Crying or Very sad . I take often back to TomTom because Wayfinder can not avoid something. Wayfinders does always direct you to the highway. It takes always the shortest way and so on. I hope this will be changed in the near future.

swing wrote:

5. It would be nice to have some real world usage figures for the GPRS - eg Does it constantly download via GPRS or does it download the whole details at the start of the journey.


Well, what Wayfinders says, is fully true. Most of the time a route cost about 6Kb. If you go offroute then the gprs is needed and again it consumes an averge of 6Kb. So only gprs is needed for calculating a (new) route.

If you use the map-view with Wayfinder then it will consumes for practical 40 km driving around 400Kb. But please note: the map-view of Wayfinder is at that moment the most horrible thing you have ever seen. This will be stated in the review, I'm sure about that! So Wayfinder map-view isn't useable at the moment.

Billy
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sssss
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:05 pm    Post subject: Wayfinder Symbian Reply with quote

Come on - has anybody here actually used this?

This is the more dire Satnav system I've used.

Even in it's basic capacity, it fails to delivery reliable navigation directions. The server often fails to respond, often for hours, leaving you with no navigation at all (since no maps are stored on the device). If you buy this system, be sure to buy a traditional map too.

As for the supposed advantages over a PDA-based system, they don't exist. The trafffic avoidance, company lookup, yellow pages and recently announced postcode lookup don't exist. They are simply fabrication. Wayfinder themselves has stated in writing that they have no plans to implement any of these in the forseable future.

Buy a PDA.
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swing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Wayfinder Symbian Reply with quote

sssss wrote:
trafffic avoidance .... Wayfinder themselves has stated in writing that they have no plans to implement any of these in the forseable future.
That's a real shame - providing a route which constantly allowed for traffic was about their only selling point to me.

Ah well, I guess it's either SmartNav or wait for the combined GPS/TMC solutions to hit the UK (although I'm considering not getting a PocketPC PDA as my next PDA which really limits all this technology).

Steve
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Billy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Wayfinder Symbian Reply with quote

sssss wrote:
Come on - has anybody here actually used this?

Even in it's basic capacity, it fails to delivery reliable navigation directions. The server often fails to respond, often for hours, leaving you with no navigation at all ...

As for the supposed advantages over a PDA-based system, they don't exist. The trafffic avoidance, company lookup, yellow pages and recently announced postcode lookup don't exist. They are simply fabrication. Wayfinder themselves has stated in writing that they have no plans to implement any of these in the forseable future.


Well I'm sorry. BUT your totally wrong! Wayfinder works better with routing and voice instructions than a Navman and a TomTom. Believe me! The only big drawback of wayfinder is the mapview. But the server is always available. And it does handle the basic navigation directions. That's also still one drawback of Wayfinder you don't have at the moment an avoid options,...

BUT IT WORKS! And Wayfinder will include a traffic jam avoid function, avoid speedway/tollways and a better map-view. Just wait. Although the developers needs a very long time at Wayfinder to show some improvements.

Now where is that review overhere? Smile

Billy
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Billy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just wondering....where is that review of Wayfinder?!

Billy
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