| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mossman
Regular Visitor
Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 90
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| 999tommo wrote: | | mossman wrote: | | and the same could be argued for the paper-based AA Road Map that now lists speed cameras. |
Technically correct, but I'd like to meet the bloke who avoids speeding fines by reading his AA road map to look for speed cameras whilst driving.   |
Yes, but being a sensible motorist, he would have checked his route beforehand, noted the camera positions, and though "Ah, I'd better exercise extra caution there, as the proliferation of Safety Cameras indicates potential accident blackspots"  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JimmyTheHand
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 999tommo wrote: | | mossman wrote: | | and the same could be argued for the paper-based AA Road Map that now lists speed cameras. |
Technically correct, but I'd like to meet the bloke who avoids speeding fines by reading his AA road map to look for speed cameras whilst driving. |
How about a passenger who is reading the map - would seem a closer match to GPS system - except you wouldn't get the argument afterwards when it flashed with the GPS system ;)
_________________
J. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TomDavison
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Bedford, England
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Surely the reason for the camera is the big difference here.
In Bedfordshire, "Safety Cameras", fixed or mobile, operate at known locations. These are supposed to be accident black spots, which is why the camera is reflective yellow, and the fixed camera locations are published on the police web site. The preset locations for all mobile "partnership" cameras are also on the web-site, and every week there is a list of which of these locations will be manned by "partnership" cameras. Publicising these cameras is supposed to be intended as safety measueres with the aim of slowing vehicles down at known hazards. (They claim!!) This is also why these cameras can only be used if approved signage is on display ahead of the location.
Police mobile cameras, on the other hand can operate anywhere. and have even been seen at "partnership" locations which have been notified as not active. Now that's really sneaky. Their aim is not to warn in advance, and slow down the vehicles, but to trap speeding motorists. They do not give any form of advance warning Indeed, this is why it is an offence to warn motorists of the presence of a police trap, but not an offence to warn of fixed or mobile "partnership" cameras.
Use of a GPS device can only give warning about the fixed and preset mobile locations, and therefore meets the police aim of warning in advance of hazardous sites. They can be said to be an aid to the speed reduction aim of the safety camera partnership, and it would be difficult for the authorities to argue otherwise. Active sensors, however can identify the location of the "random" police traps, and give the sort of advance warning that is currently illegal. It cannot be argued that a sensor that spots one of these traps gives you warning of a hazardous location. Their sole aim is to prevent prosecution for an illegal act, which is why they can be banned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999tommo
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TomDavison wrote: | | Use of a GPS device can only give warning about the fixed and preset mobile locations, and therefore meets the police aim of warning in advance of hazardous sites. They can be said to be an aid to the speed reduction aim of the safety camera partnership, and it would be difficult for the authorities to argue otherwise. Active sensors, however can identify the location of the "random" police traps, and give the sort of advance warning that is currently illegal. It cannot be argued that a sensor that spots one of these traps gives you warning of a hazardous location. Their sole aim is to prevent prosecution for an illegal act, which is why they can be banned. |
Tom, I agree totally with what you are saying, however, my point is that someone using a GPS based SCD could use it just like a radar detector and drive dangerously except when their device goes 'beep', therefore avoiding the camera's flash and ultimately making the use of the GPS, the same as a detector. I appreciate that a GPS based system is not an effective way of avoiding prosecution in relation to random Police radar sites. But then neither system is effective at avoiding detection by VASCAR (mentioned in an earlier post on this thread). For this you need exceptional eyesight, good use of your mirrors and a knowledge of what the local Police vehicles look like (including unmarked ones).
P.S. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm playing devils advocate. Each system can be used for a legitimate purpose, but can also be used for a totally irrespobsible one. At the end of the day, if all GPS users were not of the mindset to ever drive irresponsibly, they would not have the need for a speed camera database would they ?
_________________
Tommo...
Regularly absent, but still here in spirit ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TomDavison
Lifetime Member
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 384
Location: Bedford, England
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 999tommo wrote: | Tom, I agree totally with what you are saying, however, my point is that someone using a GPS based SCD could use it just like a radar detector and drive dangerously except when their device goes 'beep', therefore avoiding the camera's flash and ultimately making the use of the GPS, the same as a detector. I appreciate that a GPS based system is not an effective way of avoiding prosecution in relation to random Police radar sites. But then neither system is effective at avoiding detection by VASCAR (mentioned in an earlier post on this thread). For this you need exceptional eyesight, good use of your mirrors and a knowledge of what the local Police vehicles look like (including unmarked ones).
P.S. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm playing devils advocate. Each system can be used for a legitimate purpose, but can also be used for a totally irrespobsible one. At the end of the day, if all GPS users were not of the mindset to ever drive irresponsibly, they would not have the need for a speed camera database would they ? |
Scuse me a moment while I get my tongue firmly wedged in my cheek.
OK
But surely we all drive around within the speed limit, and simply use the GPS to advise of a particularly hazardous area; so hazardous that the safety partnership have been forced to install cameras. We then slow down even further so that safety is enhanced. Don't we????? ;-0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999tommo
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TomDavison wrote: | | But surely we all drive around within the speed limit, and simply use the GPS to advise of a particularly hazardous area; so hazardous that the safety partnership have been forced to install cameras. We then slow down even further so that safety is enhanced. Don't we????? ;-0 |
Precisely my point. Just like people with radar detectors !!!
_________________
Tommo...
Regularly absent, but still here in spirit ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mossman
Regular Visitor
Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 999tommo wrote: | | TomDavison wrote: | | But surely we all drive around within the speed limit, and simply use the GPS to advise of a particularly hazardous area; so hazardous that the safety partnership have been forced to install cameras. We then slow down even further so that safety is enhanced. Don't we????? ;-0 |
Precisely my point. Just like people with radar detectors !!! |
The one difference (big difference) being the detector is an active device, the GPS positioning is a passive device. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TartanGiant
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
Posts: 51
Location: East Sussex
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: M42 new eghmmm safety cameras |
|
|
I have just received this from a friend.
As of the 1st April 2006 the new digital automated tracking system between junctions 3 & 7b on the M42 is scheduled to go live.
There are 276 Digital Cameras which have been set to 2 MPH tolerance
You will not see any flash. The first you will know when you have been caught is the day the postman delivers the £60 fine.
Of course it's a saftey 'thing'.
TG |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: M42 new eghmmm safety cameras |
|
|
| TartanGiant wrote: | I have just received this from a friend.
As of the 1st April 2006 the new digital automated tracking system between junctions 3 & 7b on the M42 is scheduled to go live.
There are 276 Digital Cameras which have been set to 2 MPH tolerance
You will not see any flash. The first you will know when you have been caught is the day the postman delivers the £60 fine.
Of course it's a saftey 'thing'.
TG |
Discussed in depth in this thread.
_________________
Darren Griffin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TartanGiant
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
Posts: 51
Location: East Sussex
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry Darren 
I did not realise it's been sussed.
TG |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TartanGiant wrote: | Sorry Darren
I did not realise it's been sussed.
TG |
No need to apologise! Just alerting you to the thread
_________________
Darren Griffin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mossman
Regular Visitor
Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sorry, but I thought that camera system had gone live last year (November I think), when the Active Traffic Management System was switch on (variable spped limits on lanes between those junctions in order to smooth out traffic flow)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mossman
Regular Visitor
Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 90
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smstextaddict
Lifetime Member
Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 82
Location: oxford
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| One thing everyone seems to forget about laser detectors is that once it bleeps at you theyve already done the speed reading and are issuing you the £60 fine +3 points. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frazz
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Gotham City
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| smstextaddict wrote: | | One thing everyone seems to forget about laser detectors is that once it bleeps at you theyve already done the speed reading and are issuing you the £60 fine +3 points. |
Yes but the range of these devices can be up to one mile so you know whether they're active in the area you're driving.
Frazz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
![]() Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising |
|
|
We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in for private messages
Log in
