City Select or Navigator

locksmith · Lifetime Member Joined: Aug 16, 2005 Posts: 221

Tha Quest comes with CitySelect but what is CityNavigator ?

Skippy · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

My understanding is that it is the same maps with the same roads but with extra data about the roads.

Historically, the higher end Garmins had CN and the lower end ones had CS. I guess Garmin negotiated a deal whereby they could pay less royalty for maps with less road information.

For example, CN is supposed to have data about the number of traffic lights on a road, traffic calming etc. It is also said to include time restricted limitations on roads. ie, CN might know that a junction is "no right turn mon-fri 7am to 7pm" where CS thinks it's "no right turn". So the theory is that CN could choose a better route than CS.

How much difference that makes in practice is open to debate....
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elsinga · Regular Visitor Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 171

I went from CS on the Quest 1 to CN on the Quest 2 and the most visible thing is the names on the highway exit turn screens. Where CS will show "take exit 10 to Willow Street" (the streetname), CN will show "take exit 10 to Oaktown, Tree Village" (the sign on the exit).

I don;t know if the other features are actually included in the european data...
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GPS V FAQ Quest FAQ
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BeatO · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:58 am Post subject:

Hi M8s,

to warm up this thread, what about detailed information about house numbering and the like. Are there any differences in that area?

BeatO

elsinga · Regular Visitor Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 171

Not that I know of.

Other extra;s CN has are:
- info about highway mid-barriers (i.e. where you can and can't do a U-turn)
- info about time restricted entry (i.e. a road that is open from 10:00 to 22:00, this will show as always closed on CS)
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Robert Elsinga =8- )

GPS V FAQ Quest FAQ
Home @ N 52"55.812', E 05"51.509'

Andy2No · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:29 am Post subject:

I recently asked Garmin's support some questions about the coming Quest upgrade from City Select to City Navigator. The only one they answered was to confirm that it would be offered as an upgrade, at a price of around £50 (about 70 Euros). I sent the other questions again but never got an answer. Maybe they're not allowed to comment?

Perhaps I'd get more information by just asking you guys instead. Essentially, the questions I was asking were:-

Will using City Navigator Europe on a Quest require new firmware?

Will the user interface of the Quest change with the upgrade?

Specifically, will the Quest's user interface for route planning be improved by buying the new software when it's released, or will it just improve the detail of the maps and make them more up to date?

Also, will any of the smaller roads be left off in the new version to make room for the extra content?

Will I be able to try the new software before I decide to buy it? If I don't like it, will I be able to restore my Quest to the way it is now? (Mostly, I was wondering if the firmware can also be downgraded, if necessary, or if the Quest will only accept the same or a higher firmware version number when reflashing it).

One thing that still bothers me is the awkwardness of trying to add via points to a route using the map. Often, I can see a via point I want to use when looking at the route overview, but when I ask to add one the map zooms out to show the whole of the North West, or whichever region I happen to be in at the time. Also, the proposed route isn't visible any more so I can't use it as a reference.

The other thing that bothers me is that the route planner doesn't remember that I was planning a route if I press the page key a couple of times. At the very least, if I go back to the Route Options and choose the Route Planner, it seems to me it should show the details of the route I was in the middle of planning, not the list of all routes.

I was hoping that something would be done to improve this situation as part of the upgrade. Is that likely to happen, or is CNE just going to look like a better set of maps with exactly the same user interface as before?

It did occur to me that the new detailed content about one way systems, central lane dividers and so on, may have been added at the expense of minor roads. Does anyone know if some smaller roads will be left off in the new version to make room for the extra content? While I was in Portugal recently, I was pleased to see that some very narrow forest roads in the Sintra region were covered by City Select v7, some of them not even properly surfaced. It would be a shame to lose that level of detail in favour of better information about inner city traffic systems.

Another quesiton has just occured to me - whenever I show people my Quest one of the first things they tend to say is "Oh, do you just put in the postcode where you want to go?". It's a fair question really.. Other GPS systems support that but of course the Quest doesn't. Will adding CNE to a Quest allow postcodes as destinations?

elsinga · Regular Visitor Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 171

A firmware downgrade is no problem, but all settings are lost (essentially a user reset is done automatically). You can find previous firmware versions at my site (see below).
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Robert Elsinga =8- )

GPS V FAQ Quest FAQ
Home @ N 52"55.812', E 05"51.509'

Andy2No · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:43 am Post subject:

Skippy · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

I don't know the answers for certain, but here's what I think they are based on my experience of Garmin GPS units.

Will using City Navigator Europe on a Quest require new firmware?

Maybe it will. Apparently the CN maps will work on the Quest but in the past I have been told that the Quest couldn't use the extra data in the CN maps so maybe there will be a firmware upgrade.

Will the user interface of the Quest change with the upgrade?

No, the maps and the firmware are quite distinct from each other.

Also, will any of the smaller roads be left off in the new version to make room for the extra content?

No roads will be left out, so the new maps will be bigger.

Will I be able to try the new software before I decide to buy it?

Very unlikely due to the high licensing costs of the maps. Garmin do offer an online map viewer though.

Will adding CNE to a Quest allow postcodes as destinations?

This is a Quest 2 feature but Garmin are showing no inclination towards retrofitting this (or proximity alerts) to the Quest 1. :x
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Andy2No · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:51 am Post subject:

Ok. Thanks.

The fact that Garmin customer support didn't seem to want to answer any of those questions suggests that you're right... It makes me wonder whether the Quest 1 is going to support the City Navigator extra data properly, or whether they're just shoe-horning the CN maps onto the Quest to save having to update City Select as a separate product any more. Maybe we're not going to benefit from those extra map features at all?

I guess just some more up to date map data is worth having but I was hoping for a lot more. I don't part with money for software without a fairly persuasive argument. It seems the only way I'll find out for sure what the differences will be is to either buy it when it comes out or wait for someone else to, and ask them about it in this forum... I can't see Garmin providing enough information to let me make an informed decision.

Andy2No · Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:57 am Post subject:

ST4S · Occasional Visitor Joined: Oct 03, 2005 Posts: 29

There's an interesting thread (excuse the pun) developing here. It's based on a bit of an assumption on my part, but Garmin certainly seem to be a bit reticent about telling exactly what the position is regarding Maps (functionality wise) and future Firmware updates (especially full postcode search functionality) for Quest (1).

I bought my Quest just before Quest II was released (and didn't know QII was coming, or I might have waited). As such, I would not have expected Garmin to consider me a 2nd class customer because I bought a superseded unit. However, judging by some of the comments I've seen in this forum about their alleged approach to customers questions and their non-response to a recent e-mail of mine, I'm starting to wonder.....

Having not so long ago parted with a not insubstantial sum for my first SatNav unit, Garmin won't be on my list of future 'possible suppliers' if they a) stop supporting Q1 too soon and b) don't provide up to date & fully functional maps.

I thought long and hard before purchasing my first unit (and maybe the other manufacturers aren't so hot, for all I know), but working in a customer led industry I know only too well what happens if you don't listen to your customers.. I just hope Garmin is doing that (listening)...

Andy2No · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:01 am Post subject:

I've been thinking pretty much the same things.

The Quest 1 is also my first GPS unit and if I don't feel it's been supported properly when I come to buy another one, I'm not likely to choose Garmin again. If it turns out they're the sort of manufacturer who discontinue proper support for something as soon as it's replacement comes out, I'll be less than impressed.

I like my Quest and it's been very useful, though it has some glaring user interface design errors. I was hoping they'd be fixed eventually but now I'm a little pessimistic about that.

As you say, it wasn't cheap and it seemed the best choice of Garmin products at the time. I was prepared to pay for software updates, perhaps once a year but I was hoping those would be real improvements, not just newer map data with no change in how it's used and presented. If it turns out that the Quest 1 is given a firmware that can support CN properly then I'll be a little more hopeful about it.

Garmin's avoidance of answering our questions about what the new mapping software will do on a Quest 1 makes me think the answer might be "not much".

Skippy · Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:49 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I'm annoyed that they haven't retrofitted the POI alerts and postcode search to the Quest I too. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult and the Quest II firmware isn't all that different. Keep badgering Garmin (politely) and maybe they will do something about it.

However, the Quest still does everything it did when I brought it and I still think it's a good little unit because of it's pocket size form factor (compared to the TomTom, Street Pilot or i3), it's waterproof for use on the bike or outdoors and it comes with full European maps.
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krusty_clown · Occasional Visitor Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 11

Just to add to this discussion, I read on another forum, that the newer mapping on the Quest2 can cause re-draw delays of between 8-15 seconds!
Can any of our Quest2 brethren testify to this?

So, I was a little worried that upgrading to navigator might cause similar re-draw problems on the Quest.

Here's the reply I received from Garmin support (very promptly I might add):
)
- City navigator has more routing attributes so it will take slightly longer to calculate a route, but its not something that will be noticeable.

Also they expect to release this on the 25th (this Saturday) at a cost of $75.

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