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Safety Camera Fees - Details
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davejh
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Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: you got to laugh Reply with quote

So everyone who has previously contributed to the database gets it free. But any new contributors to the database have to pay. where is the logic there. What have the previous contributors done that the new contributors wont do. Laughing Laughing
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Tim Buxton
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Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
Posts: 5231
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contributed before the cut off date. I paid into a pension and, later on, found that if I contributed more, the company would 'match' my extra contributions. I thought about it for a while and decided to join the scheme on my next pay day. In between my making the decision and attempting to join the scheme, it was closed. I still paid my pension but without any of the added benefits.
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jmk
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Joined: Mar 14, 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Surrey, England

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem with reporting cameras in the past is that I never came accross one that was not already in the database...
A bit unfair for the likes of me...
I would'ave if I could'ave but could'nt so I did'nt.
Best wishes to all for 2006
John
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jheward
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Joined: Jan 02, 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think that there should be some reward for new contributions to the database. Perhaps you could offer 1 months free access per submission to encourage new entries.

I also have a concern about the accuracy of recent submissions. Let me explain - you announced last week that people had until midnight on 30 December to submit camera details and get a free lifetime subscription to the database. This has obviously encourage lots of dubious submissions by people wanting the free subscription. If you don't believe me, have a look at other forums on the internet where you will find people bragging about making up details or submitting entries that are already in the database. My main question is: How are you going to filter out all the dubious entries and make sure the database is still accurate?

Personally I feel you should not have allowed an extension to the submission date. Surely it would have been better to have a cut off date which was before any announcement you made on the free subscription.
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jheward wrote:
I also think that there should be some reward for new contributions to the database. Perhaps you could offer 1 months free access per submission to encourage new entries.

We have announced that there will be such a reward scheme in operation and all submissions will be checked before they are added to the database. Any that we suspect or discover to be false will not be added and the person contributing that data will not automatically earn the free subscription.
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jheward
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Joined: Jan 02, 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Darren

Thanks for the reply.

I cannot find the announcement about rewarding new submissions to the database. Could you post a link to it please?

Cheers
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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read the announcement, first post on Page 1 of this thread.
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jheward
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Joined: Jan 02, 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Darren - I don't know how I missed that!

Seems like a sensible solution
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BunnyBallerina
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Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="iankb"]
BunnyBallerina wrote:
So what is the incentive for me to post this data? At least under the free model it was for the greater good. But now?

I'm amazed that you overlook the far greater good for all of the subscribers to this database. Whether the forum owners make money out of it or not, it is still us (including you) who get the benefit of users' contributions.

end quote


The point I'm making is the site's latest proposal has created an "inner circle" of members and the door for this "elite" membership has been slammed closed at very short notice at a (convieniently) quiet time of year. (Remember that now infamous quote: "Today's a very good day to hide bad news.")

You are welcome to the data - and it is all there in the public domain anyway - but it leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth that the site owners decide this course of action.

Prompted by comments on the accuracy I have checked several of the gatsos around here. Some have pinpoint accuracy but others are haphazard. One has been copied off the local safety cam partnership website complete with the wrong speed limit, location - and direction!!

And the temp speed cam locations are a lucky dip of accurate and complete cobblers.

We are talking about a big city not a two-horse town. One that hundreds of thousands would drive around regularly.

And on another route to my parents' house some cameras are in the wrong place, cameras are missing and there are ghost cameras.

So if the database is as good as it is claimed why all the errors - and why haven't they been corrected? And is this the case elsewhere in the UK?

If this (charging) debate has done one thing it has raised many questions of the accuracy of the information and the flow of information into the db.

So PGPS if you want this to be a definate database why not take advantage of all these people who have come out of the woodwork who have relevant local knowledge to update.

But you will have to allow them "inner circle" membership in exchange for this data.

If you agree with the principle of "selling" the data you'll now have to be prepared to "pay" for it. And based on the "inner circle" deal it will have to be more than one camera = one download.
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Gitster
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Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, as you can see i'm new here, but i have to say from a personal point of view, i think being able to download at two quid a pop, is a godsend!.
Even the subscription is fairly priced imo, if it saves you just one day in court etc, it is worth it for that reason alone.

If the prices got increased and out of hand, i could understand certain gripes, but if it's a choice of having to pay for the service, or no service at all, i know what i would rather have Wink
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soweezy
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Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 324
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BunnyBallerina wrote:
So if the database is as good as it is claimed why all the errors - and why haven't they been corrected? And is this the case elsewhere in the UK?

if there are that many errors in your area why haven't YOU submitted corrections instead of just complaining about it ? Rolling Eyes
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BunnyBallerina
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Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soweezy wrote:
BunnyBallerina wrote:
So if the database is as good as it is claimed why all the errors - and why haven't they been corrected? And is this the case elsewhere in the UK?

if there are that many errors in your area why haven't YOU submitted corrections instead of just complaining about it ? Rolling Eyes


Because up to now I've never used satnav around town and 95% of my trips are local now - just the odd long journey.

Following other comments I was curious to see what the situation was around here.

The version I had must have been a year old. So I downloaded the Nov '05 database to see for myself. So many people were saying good things about it.

Anyway I formed my own conclusions. As I said PGPS are welcome to them - as long as they are prepared to offer a level playing field to all contributors.

OK so their action plan seems to have worked to have placated existing contributors - but they should be looking to have everyone on board - as we all have a common interest.

They can have any number of salaried staff - but that won't get all the cameras right - or in time to stop someone from being caught. And would that even be a good use of resources?

Believe me it is not the money part of the equation. It wouldn't matter whether it was 1p or £100 per month. It is the principle.

For info:

(Actually I have submitted camera corrections in the past when I used to travel a lot - but they would have all been sent from one-off use or junk email accounts - to cut down on the huge spam problems I've had in the past. I wouldn't know where to start on trying to claim these as "mine" - or even if they were accepted)
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Stanley_Tweedle
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Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never contributed although I was considering it; at least updating some speed limits for some unmarked cameras in my area.

I'm now so glad I didn't and if the contributors feel happy that the directors will either make a handsome running profit from the database or even become .com fat cats if they sell the site and or database then that's their business. I'm just glad they won't be making it off my back. I will be happy to contribute to the open source database.
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Ako
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Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gitser wrote:
Quote:
think being able to download at two quid a pop, is a godsend!.


Yes! x 12months x 5000 people (conservative estimate) = £120,000. Because the number is small for the individual it seems cheap but look at the big picture. People out here are making this possible.

Soweezy wrote:
Quote:
if there are that many errors in your area why haven't YOU submitted corrections instead of just complaining about it ?


People who have already contributed (the inner circle as BunnyBalerina said) can now (if they wish) sit back (even if they have only contributed 1 camera location), while new members do the update work and also pay for it.

Dave
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tomtomgo
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Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote;
People who have already contributed (the inner circle as BunnyBalerina said) can now (if they wish) sit back (even if they have only contributed 1 camera location), while new members do the update work and also pay for it.

Save your breath, you know the saying, you can lead a horse to water....
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