Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional

elan2s · Regular Visitor Joined: Dec 07, 2004 Posts: 143

As someone else said this really has opened a can of worms, and for the record I am very sad that the decision to charge has been made and given that Mike is all geared up to become a full time employee in January one assumes in reality this is done deal and no end of discussion is going to change this.

However I think there may be a further legal consideration not covered in the previous 14 pages which relates to the long term future of the database. Whilst the database is in effect a group of individuals sharing their personal knowledge of specific "POIs" amongst themselves then it is probably very difficult for legislation to outlaw it should the government try to include GPS based speed camera devices in some future road traffic legislation as in effect there is no one to pursue other than possibly the person hosting the web site and that can be changed very quickly. By making this a commercial undertaking it changes the whole status of the operation and all of a sudden there is a legal owner of the database who can be forced to shut down the operation. I believe that just such an argument was even put forward on this site in the early days in response to a question regarding the legality of using the data.

Also would this site have got the major publicity from being featured on Fifth Gear had it been simply a commercial database of speed cameras, I doubt it very much as it would no doubt of been construed as advertising and something Five would of wanted to charge many thousands for!

Considering what is a fair fee, I have just purchased an Inforad for my wife (for Christmas) as she wanted a speed camera warning system but not one linked to a navigation application. They offer the first year of updates for nothing, charge £24.99pa for subsequent years or £49.99 for a lifetime update service. Now I appreciate that the arguments above regarding their ability to outlaw such a database apply (and were that to happen within 3 years you would be out of pocket) but for their fee they are providing what is in effect a continuous update service (they recommend refreshing the database weekly) and they can only get revenue from the small number of people with the device yet one has to assume their costs are every bit as great as any incurred here and possibly more. I can't comment on the accuracy etc as it is still in a sealed box.

In the initial post about the plans for "Turning Professional" there is the following quote

abbott · Occasional Visitor Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 5

As I said in my earlier post, it’s the principle of paying for information that I and many others have submitted for free.. . As for who owns the database, the legal position, I don’t know.. the moral one I think is obvious. So surely the only answer is not to use the original database but to create your own new one. You say you are going to employ someone to check that all speed cams are correct. Well set him off down the road post haste with pen and paper..then you can guarantee the reliability of the speed cam positions..fixed ones that is. And only if it was there when he was. how can you know where mobile cams are normally situated. It wasn’t there at 3 o clock but it was at 4 o clock. As someone said in an earlier post, you would need an army.regards abbott

MJN · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject:

trevor.dowle · Lifetime Member Joined: 16/06/2003 05:22:14 Posts: 412

JonnyW · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 16, 2005 Posts: 39

After getting wrists slapped yesterday by the editors of PocketGPSWorld, I wonder what they think of the comments so far.

There have been more posts against the charging of the database than for and a lot of talk of going elsewhere for the information.

We would like to hear your views guys... Wink

alanparrott · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject:

gcb · Regular Visitor Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 151

I'm happy with the service as it is even though I use an I3 and the data is not set up as well for the I3 as the Tom Tom.

No need to change anything.

BERT_UK · Occasional Visitor Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 45

elyl · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

Well, it's been said before, but since we're on page 15, I might as well give my views as well.

- Charging for the database will result in a sharp downturn in contributions of new cameras

- Charging for the database will result in it moving to newsgroups or P2P networks

I think the best thing that can happen to this project now is if someone starts up a new database. I fail to see why it should become such a full-time endeavour, all that's needed is a good bit of PHP/CGI code which allows people to input the coordinates directly - this could result in daily updates with little or no effort involved. A handful of volunteers would be able to keep an eye out for fake cameras being added or genuine ones being removed.
Charging for your database will be the death of your database.

Petekk · Regular Visitor Joined: Mar 06, 2004 Posts: 137

Users submitted dated on the principal of mutual benefit. If the database becomes commercial, then there are several other options and I certainly would no longer contribute.

IIRC correctly there is one commercial database/system that pays a reward to a user to locating a new camera.

I accept that there is a bandwith cost, however this is not where near £2.00. The database can be smaller (i.e we dont all need a 1.7mb download) - even so my isp would only charge 25p per 100 downloads (I am sure that this could be less) So say, even a £2.50 charge per year would more than bandwidth costs (£2.50 less fund transfer/paypal etc free plus more bandwith than you need). The costs of maintaining the database are compensated by the advertising space that can be sold as a result of the number of visitors to the site.

Alternativly p2p could be used, and users could share the bandwith burden.

technik · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject:

First of all, I will not be paying for updates, as I own a Road Angel with a lifetime subscription for updates.

I think £10 per year would be more realistic as an option. The £2 per download is fine for people that just want an occasional update.

If you start charging £20/year that is too much and people are going to spend their money on a Road Angel or a Drivesmart instead, which have a far greater accurate database. The Drivesmart also has FREE updates!

You will also lose all the people that have contributed to the database for free, and many of these people including myself drive in excess of £20,000 miles per year.

IT WILL BE A BIG MISTAKE TO CHARGE PEOPLE FOR UPDATES

Fat_Jez · Occasional Visitor Joined: Oct 31, 2005 Posts: 18

Personally I would suggest you go down the route of a two tier site access system. Keep the majority of the site free of charge and perhaps allow people to download a copy of the database that is perhaps 1-2 months out of date. Then have a chargeable part of the site, free from advertising and offering incentives to members, e.g. a bang up to date copy of the database, or perhaps arranging and offering discounts from some online stores to full members. Charge £20 a year or £2 a month. Job done.

Cheers,
Jez

MR_WHITE · Occasional Visitor Joined: Feb 19, 2004 Posts: 34

i don't see the point, people will just upload it to bit torrent sites for free!!!
and it's not fair no the people that paid.

tomtomgo · Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:

Maybe but i bet pgpsw will flood the likes of emule etc with doctored versions, the ones that like blow up your GO, oh! but they wouldn't do that, would they now. Although it would save time by not having to worry about introducing protective code.

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