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Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional
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gstenson
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Joined: 23/10/2002 09:53:59
Posts: 267
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a long term user of TomTom and pocketgps (see my join date) I am disappointed with this decision. I dont doubt that the £2 fee is cheap, but this database has been built with the open community and surely is the equivalent to 'open source'. I have openly promoted this site to all my friends and colleagues to download this database who in turn visit the site and view all the adverts - this surely can pay for this service, or at least contribute. This is like saying that Linux will introduce a fee everytime you download the source binaries. Introducing a fee, no matter what people have said, will discourage a MASSIVE amount of people from downloading and contributing in the future. I know I will have second thoughts from now on Sad
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metroace
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Middlesex

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jammy1 wrote:
I have used the camera database since I bought my TomTom Classic and have been very pleased with it. I have no objections to paying for this service. I would, however, propose a two tier charging approach.

Tier one: £2 per individual download, as proposed. This gives newcomers to the service the oppurtunity to try out the database before...

Tier two: £20 for an annual subscription service. This way I don't have to keep entering my debit card details every time I need to update the database.

I feel this would provide a best of both worlds solution.


I understand the need to have some charge associated with the download but I think something along the lines suggested by Jammy1 above is sensible.

Personally, I'd prefer an annual charge so that I don't have to enter my details over and over again.
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Flashyphotos
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Joined: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 306
Location: All Over The UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I still find the Database flaky in many areas,

Not sown to you but down to some of the user reporting, in the areas I travel a lot of Ghost cameras exist amny being ANPR Sites and Trafficmaster cameras,

Many have been wrong for the best part of a year and are not removed despite requests,

So personally on a paid database I will be taking my money to a more expensive but Proffesionally updated service rather than rellying on a user Dbase that generates many errors,

If its down to cash I would rather pay more and get the better service,

Just my opinion

Thanks

Richard
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worthingsaxovtr
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Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 150
Location: worthing

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm

I am not opposed to the 2.00 charge, but I still find the database empty in some areas where i have found cameras.

Also if we submit a new camera do we get some sort of discount, as opposed to say a user that just uses the database and doesnt contribute.

ALos if you contribute to the speed camera database, and also have to pay for it, why should the person be bothered to do it. It would be like they are paying themselves.

The whole point about the databse being free, is that that is the part that attracts people. How about just making me or influencing people to donate instead of adding a charge .
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tomthompson
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Joined: 26/08/2003 15:43:37
Posts: 386
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read with some amusement the replies to the charging for the download of the speed camera database.
Having been around on this site for what seems an eternity I have seen it grow beyond anything envisaged by anyone. I do remember going to one of the 1st meets which was in a small pub in the country and there were something like 20 of us looking at the latest gear. I think this shows the growth that has gone on here and it amazes me that its still done part time

The database has saved my licence on so many occassions as most know I do a lot of miles on a motorbike and it is so easy to just twist the throttle to get past some idiot wandering all over the road and flash bang wallop more points on the licence. So a small charge and £2 is a small charge and worth it . Especially as I have just obtained a Garmin 2720 and lo and behold there is a garmin section for the database Whooppee.

So my vote stays with the blokes that run this site and do the database, and if the charge is £2 they will get my money and not begrudgingly either.

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james_uk9
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Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SimonB wrote:
James_uk9 - aren't your comments a little harsh.

At the end of the day, people provide assistance is keeping the database upto-date. But that doesn't contribute to the day-to-day running/hosting/hardware/software/bandwidth costs that I know PocketGPS will be incurring.

You would still be contributing if you were to continue using the database - by helping yourself and others.

Be realistic, people selling the database on Ebay is 100% different to what PocketGPS are doing.

Simon
--


Harsh?.... Possibly yes! but also warranted imo. I have read these forums daily for over a year and have seen time and time again the claim that the camera database will remain free.

Time will tell, Pesonally, I believe this will prove to be suicide for pocketgps. As time progresses the userdb will shrink significantly, and the product will filter thru to p2p apps and such like from day 1 which will further de-value its true worth.

A significantly reduced userdb will also most likely affect companies that advertise here.

The more i think about this, the clearer I can see the writing on the wall......
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stuart
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Joined: 20/04/2003 11:51:10
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Location: Dorset, England, Great Britain

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Speed Camera Data Reply with quote

Oh My God. This is bound to stir up a huge hornets nest. So many questions to be asked. Will the data purchased be bang up to date. if not, and I pay by Visa, will I get a refund if an un-logged device flashes me. Comsumer Protection Act...I have more doubts, as mentioned already. If 'we' submit new locations, we surely must have a share in the profits....I'm only asking.
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BERT_UK
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Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can appreciate the need to charge to cover the bandwidth costs of the server. After all bandwidth doesn't come free.

However, couldn't you help yourselves out a bit by dividing the database up into smaller portions? Currently the most recent database is approx 1.7MB in size, but most of the files contained in this archive will be redundant with the average downloader only interested in the files specific to their GPS. This would help to shave off some wasted bandwidth and thereby help to bring the cost of the database down as those saved bytes will soon turn into Kilobytes, to Megabytes and so on.....

Other options to lower bandwidth may also exist. Perhaps the use of Bit Torrent or partner sites to distribute the database? I don't know about the viability of these and you may already have investigated these other options.

I do have to agree with some other users comments though that expecting people to take the time and effort to record camera locations and then be charged for downloading the data could put many people off of bothering. I'd say on a whole that people don't mind helping out a company to correct their data but when they are the source of data it becomes a bit rich to be expected to pay for it.

I probably would only download the database a couple of times a year (or maybe before a long drive to an unfamiliar location) as I don't tend to travel lots .

To be honest, I'm not too sure what the best options are. I'm realistic to realise that servers, bandwidth and time does not come for free. I just wanted to share a few ideas to think about and some feedback on how I might use the paid for service.
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rriggers
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Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts:
Might be useful for you to publish a change log each month with a break down of new cameras/moved/removed etc

You could also for subscribers to the service remove banner ads on the site?
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stephenperry
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Joined: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can anyone give opinions on how the "official" tomtom speed camera database compares to the pocketgps one?
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stuart
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Joined: 20/04/2003 11:51:10
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Location: Dorset, England, Great Britain

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Speed Camera Locations Reply with quote

Is this site updated frequently. If so why send the details to PGPSW. Just do it yourself. How long will it be before a well known retailer of Sat Nav devices provides free downloads.
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AlanK
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Joined: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 248
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought this database worked so well as there were so many users out there that felt they owed something as a way of saying thanks!

So many people use it because it was free and there was nothing to lose. Add a charge to that, even only a small one, and there just wont be the same numbers using it.

Lower numbers of users = Even worse accuracy

From the last 5 pages it is fairly clear that you are going to lose a lot of users and therefore the number of updates are going to be cut drastically. Why the heck would I want to pay for something that is less accurate than it is now and certainly pointless in downloading every 30 days.

- Currently if there's a camera mistake/missing that's just a shame and something to be expected from a free source. I would correct it but have only just got round to downloading the update prog so was planning on doing so in the future. Having done so I would feel a bit more entitled to use the database and again provide further updates in doing so. That's pretty much how this thing works isn't it?

However if I had paid for the database I would be rather peeved that it wasn't up to par and certainly not nearly obliged to do anything about it. More likely I would go elsewhere looking for something more reliable. I certainly wouldn't feel the same way about providing an update for you to profit from!

I may be wrong here but if that's my feelings I am sure I am not the only person thinking the same so the only possibly outcome is the database is going to suffer. I don't think it is the cost that's the problem (altho per download is poor!) rather the cut numbers using it and consequently the accuracy.

I understand that there are costs incurred in running this site, as there are with most sites on the net. But you must make something from the adds shown here which benefit from the high volume of traffic. I would imagine a lot of this traffic is generated by people looking for the database (that's how I found it). Because of this I would imagine that that level is going to drop and along with it any revenue made from advertising so you will probably be worse off in the future.

Also I would love to know how on earth you will stop people from sharing the files, apart from P2P anyone that knows someone else using this will just split the cost with them and provide copies. Even users who don't know anyone else using it personally would just have to hunt a bit to find someone willing to take turns with the downloads.

<Not that I am suggesting this as my point that no-one will want a poor database will take over the pirate contingent sooner rather than later>
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cantgetlost
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Joined: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Joy of using the site !!!!!!! Reply with quote

People with no connection making their knowledge and experiences available for free.
I find it sad that someone else is now going to take a profit from speed cameras.
If you want to turn pro and charge expect to lose forum contributor's. It was nice to find a site without commercial gain in mind.
I assumed that ads covered running costs. I doubt that you will keep 1/2 your contributors like other sites who have tried turning pro, they just get swallowed by companies who think they can make a bigger profit and your baby dies.
No worries I guess someone here will be out to exploit your loss's already.
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velcrohead
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Joined: Nov 27, 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alix776 wrote:
alan please don't think there is greed or lining of pockets going on here the team and us moderators spend huge amounts of time on the forums at nights and weekends all done voluntarily this will not change the amount of admin work done by robert mike and darren to keep the site running is taking up the majority of evenings and weekends leaving little time for anything else let alone personal commitments.
the site has reached the stage where someone is needed full time to keep it running and maintain the server that the camera database uses. currently I think it has its own server separate from the main site these are reasons for charging


With reference to this, If the server that the download is on is expensive why not make the database available on bittorrent?, That way you dont even need the 'seperate' server, you save money and we use our own bandwidth to distribute the file.
I would also like to say that I am very dissapointed that this has happened.
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Boxbrownie
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Joined: 22/03/2003 16:18:25
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad
Sad
Sad
Sad
Sad
Sad

Shame.............
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