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Speed Camera Database to Turn Professional
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iankb
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Joined: May 09, 2005
Posts: 283
Location: Reading, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind paying for internet services with a credit card, since I keep one dedicated for that use, I don't accept the risk, and I can cancel it as soon as it gets compromised.

I'm not going to give my debit card details for internet use, since I don't have the same security, and my current account is not one that I wish to expose.
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alix776
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Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49
Posts: 3999
Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alan please don't think there is greed or lining of pockets going on here the team and us moderators spend huge amounts of time on the forums at nights and weekends all done voluntarily this will not change the amount of admin work done by robert mike and darren to keep the site running is taking up the majority of evenings and weekends leaving little time for anything else let alone personal commitments.
the site has reached the stage where someone is needed full time to keep it running and maintain the server that the camera database uses. currently I think it has its own server separate from the main site these are reasons for charging
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SandyMac
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Joined: Sep 03, 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject: Safety Database Reply with quote

Just to add my thoughts....

Firstly, it is disappointing to see that a charge will be introduced as the site would not be what it is without the active support of everyone. By introducing such a charge, regular contributors may be put off helping others in the future, rather they may move to another free group.

In saying the above, and assuming that it is inevitable then I for one would like to know how I can automatically maintain updates as I currently do with POIEDIT. I assume that this fantastic free utility will no longer be able to access the database. Reminds me a little of the domino affect......

:x
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SandyMac
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Joined: Sep 03, 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Safety Database Reply with quote

Just to amend my last. Should have read "domino effect"..

Embarassed
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Ken555
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Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much are we going to get paid, for alerting you to a new camera ?

Seems only fair if you start charging for the info, we've provided.
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MrRusty
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Joined: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a relative newcomer to TomTom - 6 months- I was very pleasantly surprised to find the free camera database. I was even more surprised to find how accurate it is. Whilst free is obviously best, it is totally unrealistic to think that something that takes time to compile and bandwidth to deliver can be maintained for free for ever. It just ain't reality. Somehow a satisfactory charging model has to be introduced. Inevitably those people who have contributed to the database information will feel aggrieved that their information is being "sold", but that doesn't counter the arguement that free is unsustainable. personally I would prefer an annual charge, and feel 20 is no problem. Give people the option of 2 a hit if you want, but I would prefer the less hassle annual route. I, also, am not overly happy about using paypal, but have no problem with using on-line credit card. I think to maintain the database there will have to be some sort of incentive to send in information. Obviously if this is financial there is a risk of abuse. Perhaps if you sign up to an annual "contract" you could have a period, say 1 month added to your contract end date for every new camera you submitted.

I'm sorry its no longer going to be free, but I will gladly pay for the service at the proposed charge level provided its no hassle to obtain.
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keefrto
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Joined: May 09, 2005
Posts: 128
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great shame. Looking at the advertising on the website I would have thought the costs would have been absorbed for the database as the companies have a massive link to not just Tom tom but all the other excellent products that would use the database downloads and they know that! They surely feel it works for them tapping into the growing GPS trend in cars etc?

As for the 2 charge - I agree with previous i.e. make an annual fee payable, keep the 2 per download if you want (no thanks), what about discount schem for anyone who regularly sends in new camera positions etc?

Inevitable
Sad
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rolfd
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Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK my 2p's worth now.

I don't mind having to pay a small charge for downloading the database. It has no doubt saved hundreds of users a fine and penalty points, that argument alone is good enough to implement a small fee.

I fully understand the time and effort that the admins of the site have to put in. But, you all knew that this was a popular site, and you chose to take on the responsibility of looking after it. Why not ask for more volunteers?

A good point was raised earlier on this thread. If you become a professional operation, and charge for the database, will you be offering refunds for anyone who uses it and the information is wrong, resulting in them getting a ticket? Or will they have to go to the small claims court and sue you for selling mis information?

At the moment everthing is voluntary, and as such no one would slate you for informatin being slightly inaccurate. Id say if people pay money for it and it's wrong you will get a barrage of complaints, and need another full timer to deal with these alone!

All in all this is a great site, the database and POI Edit are brilliant, and I have used them. If you can give a cast iron guarantee that the database will be as good if not better, after you implement charges then, it gets my vote, and I'll pay. Sad thing is though, that I doubt you would or could give any such guarantee. I honestly do believe that the quality of informatoin you receive from users will be poorer and the amount that you get will be smaller. At the end of the day the only people who will contribute, will be people who have paid. And i can see a lot of people refusing to pay...
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SimonCatlin
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Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 565
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Surpised as I think this will also stop those people offering it free on e-bay - which is no bad thing.

However, a yearly subscription is a better much better method. Trafcam (who I was about to leave) charge 49.00 per year and I was going to send this money to the POCKETGPSWORLD site on my Trafcam expiry. Not now.

The two tier charging is the way forward in my opinion. Buy one at 2.00 or subscribe for a year for 20.00 (effectively 2 months free).

Make a decision now though or delay the introduction as it seems no one is listening to the community.

Perhaps another option is to charge a membership fee to the site of 1.00 a year?
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MrRusty
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Joined: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
will you be offering refunds for anyone who uses it and the information is wrong, resulting in them getting a ticket? Or will they have to go to the small claims court and sue you for selling mis information?


For 20ish? I don't think so. Compared to the bespoke camera warning devices out there, or even the TomTom official camera DB, this is extremely good value. Its only a tool to assist you in driving safely. people who actually use the database I am sure will have no reservations about its value, and will appreciate that it can only ever be guidance, and not a 100% infallible resource.
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SimonB
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Joined: 28/01/2003 13:45:50
Posts: 67
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate some of the comments on this site about charging, but it is a change that I've been expecting for some time.

Also, how many people have devices like Road Angel, Origin b2 etc, and pay a considerable amount of money each year - AND you make them aware of new cameras for them to check out. You don't get anything back, but you do it to help yourself and others.

Even DriveSmart - admitably 'free updates' etc etc.... but you've still paid them quite alot upfront for the unit. So they've had their money to provide the 'free' updates.

PocketGPS haven't been charging for anything at all, but maybe the option of 3 pricing models would work across the board:

1. 2 per download
2. 20 per year
3. 50 updates for life?

Simon
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Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are receptive to suggestions and indeed the option of a yearly discounted subscription is one we are actively considering.

24 is less then half the nearest comparable service and we intend investing in improving the accuracy, simplifying the delivery to end users and adding features as we move forward.

I understand the dissapointment of some but the database brought nothing in terms of monetary contribution to the running of the site yet consumed a huge proportion of our time and an even bigger proportion of our hosting and bandwidth costs. The charge is we believe nominal and very good value.
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MJN
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Joined: Nov 07, 2005
Posts: 69
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you (PGPSW) got any thoughts as to how you would protect the copyright of the database?

Whilst I should point out that I am in no way condoning copyright theft I cannot see how you would go about stopping the databases beeing freely distributed via all the 'usual channels'. Of course, this does not mean for one moment that just because you can't stop people copying it that you should not receive payment for it (that would be absurd logic) it's just that if your goal is to be fulfilled, i.e. you get the required income to support a full-time maintainer, then you are going to have to implement a business model that will work. What that model is I don't know however it sounds like your man ought to given his background!

Given the number of dissatisfied posters to this thread I think you'd be fighting a huge battle to stop the theft of the information. Please, everyone, don't take this to mean I'm implying the previous posters would 'circumvent' the charging - I'm merely highlighting that if the 'good guys' have reservations about paying for the databases then what about the bad ones?!

I do hope this post is taken as it's intended... Smile

Mathew
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ernieb
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I agree if there is to be a charge with the idea of the two tier charging. Buy one at 2.00 or subscribe for a year for 20.00 I also like the idea of a 'buy for life charge', maybe as has already been suggested 50.

However very important to me is the ease by which I update my system using POIEDIT. This must be kept, or a replacement software program be included as part of the deal.

I have given money to both sites (pocket GPS and POI) to help with 'costs' but would not be keen to be charged and expected to make additional donations.

ErnieB
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MJN
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Joined: Nov 07, 2005
Posts: 69
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, a final point, you say that the camera database didn't bring monetry contribution to the site... Well, perhaps not directly but what about indirectly?

I for one only found the site thanks to a pointer to the database... and then went onto to purchase a PDA mount via one of your sponsored ads...

Mathew
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