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Mercedes Garmin Map Pilot SD Card Navigation System
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Result then.

Now in consideration of your findings/learnings, are you certain that you need three copies if the DB on your device. It seems a bit of a circuitous way of doing something the plain vanilla Garmin seems to quite adequately do with just the one DB file?

Nemesis1 wrote:
Done 253 miles this morning on way to a job.
Database is not very good I'm afraid, very hit and miss, but mostly miss.

So you now rescind that statement do you????? Very Happy
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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Wow. Result then.

Now in consideration of your findings/learnings, are you certain that you need three copies if the DB on your device. It seems a bit of a circuitous way of doing something the plain vanilla Garmin seems to quite adequately do with just the one DB file?

Nemesis1 wrote:
Done 253 miles this morning on way to a job.
Database is not very good I'm afraid, very hit and miss, but mostly miss.

So you now rescind that statement do you????? Very Happy



I did straight away, I kinda meant it in context of this system anyway TBH, but I appreciate it didn't read that way. I know the DB is good, been using it since the days of TomTom navigator V2.3 on the HP 1940 PDA ;-)
HAHA.

I think you do need 3. You can't select in POILoader to have both a set speed and a distance triggered alert, so you need a file for both, and as this unit will only show icons it knows are 'safety' related if you are outside the set limits of that safety threshold, you need the 3rd with the safety identifying names etc removed, to get the icons to appear regardless.

:-)

Learnt useful stuff for this unit.
It will use multiple POI.GPI files.
64x64 icons
And you can navigate to a camera, where on the PSN you can't.

This is based on a Garmin, but clearly Merc have adapted it to fit their application.

Anyone any good at making icons?
:-)
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemesis1 wrote:
Anyone any good at making icons? :-)

Send a begging letter/PM to GerryC - he did most of the downloadable camera icons and he's very, very good at it.
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Dennis

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Two of them are obesiting!!
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Nemesis1, after reading (but not understanding) your report of how what when where to get it working, I have decided to stop feeling cocky about having created a backup copy of my Renault R-Link SD card and being successful at downloading a map from their website.

And I'm a smartypants - just under 30 years ago, I succeeded in getting Lotus 123, with 4Word, to run off a 720K floppy, so there!
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Dennis

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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got some mmoe info for anyone with this system that's interested.
Mercedes did indeed make changes to the Garmin software, and this does limit the appearance of custom POI on this unit. Mercedes say this is because in many counties they sell cars in, such functionality is illegal. In order to stop people creating woke arounds, they locked down the system in regards to what can be displayed. There are no plans to ever offer as much functionality or freedom on this unit as you get with the Garmin system it is based on.
:-(

So what ever we can come up with is as good as it will get. I now have (after further testing) 90% or so visibility of icons, but I am getting all the audio alerts with the text box warning, so not too bad.

There is a software patch for the system, it corrects the roundabout 'first exit' bug some are having whereby you are instructed to take the first exit off every roundabout on a route. The map graphic dos display the correct exit, but the text and voice tell you to take the first exit.

There are as yet no 2015 maps for the UK.

I also got some info from Garmin.

The system looks ahead and only displays icons in accordance with set conditions (think we guessed this anyway) map data always takes priority. This means that any user added icon that would need to be drawn on the map within a set pixel distance from an actual map feature like a road name or number, route instruction etc, will be 'ignored' and will not display. It also knows where on the map it will move such information to as you move along, and any icon that would be drawn on the map in an area that a map feature will be moved to will also be ignored. This explains why even some of the built in icons for such as McD's etc sometimes disappear or appear late.

For info. You can have up to 127 POI with the exact same location. If what it considers to be the primary location does not have an associated icon graphic, no icon is displayed at all; it does not move down the list and show the next icon in the list for that location. They did not tell me on what basis it decides which is the primary location where multiple POI's have the exact same Lat/Long, but they did say changing the last 2 digits of the Lat and Long for any POI is enough for it to be considered a different location to another POI close by.

For this system the blue icons for petrol statins, food outlets and the like are coded into the map itself, and are not contained in a POI file as such. The POI file already present on the card is a Mercedes addition, they don't know what it is exactly. I suspect it is the dealerships etc. you can have more than 1 POI file and it will try to use them all, they are given a priority, but again they could not, or would not say how this is determined. Just one file is the preferred method.

If I remember anything else I will add it later.
:-)
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds just like the average typical built in device - it has two advantages over PNDs, namely it is fixed and powered direct, so you don't take it out when you leave and the screen is usually decent sized.

Apart from those, they are hopeless. They are usually a very pricey optional extra, you can't do your own POIs like in a PND, map and system updates are VERY delayed and very expensive compared to their (Garmin/TomTom) PND equivalents. I dunno about yours, but mine is also very difficult to operate - the touchscreen is four feet away from my left shoulder and the alternative 'remote' control is also left handed and very flaky.
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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More experiments, more things found.

The biggest one being, it seems Mercedes have coded this unit to suppress POI icons 'on' a road; these would usually be cameras.

Other POI files I load all display icons (Attractions, Landmarks etc) as discussed above, even removing all speed and safety related tags and code words from the .CSV files does not get the icons to appear with regularity.

Looking at the files on the card already, the POI file already present is the Mercedes dealership and repair centre locations for Europe. The icons for this ALWAYS appear. If you read the XML files there is a bit of code that seems to 'force' these icons to display no matter where they are, even at the roadside. If you need to 'force' something to happen, it would seem (to me anyway) that said action was not normally allowed?

So.....

I got Excel to change every camera location in every file by 5 metres (or so) thereby moving them slightly off road.
BOOM!
A map littered with little pictures of cameras :-) at all zoom levels up to and including 2 miles.

Why MB do this I have no idea :-/

More testing tomorrow, but it appears I will be using 3 sets of files as above but now in this configuration.

Set one - .BMP's removed but files left as is with speed and code words, express installed. This will give me speed alerts of approaching cameras.

Set two - speed info and .BMP's removed but Garmin code words left as is and manually configured. This will give me proximity alerts, I set it to 2640 feet (1/2 mile-ish).

Set three - speed and code words removed, locations edited to a point just off the road, .BMP's left as is, express installed. This gives me icons on the map. And unless your really zoomed in, they are close enough to look like they are on the road your on.

:-)

I have emailed MB and asked if they can confirm this and maybe tell us why.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemesis1 wrote:
More experiments, more things found.


So.....


More testing tomorrow, but it appears I will be using 3 sets of files as above

Ye Gods and little fishes! I would drive slower or pay the fines.
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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Nemesis1 wrote:
More experiments, more things found.


So.....


More testing tomorrow, but it appears I will be using 3 sets of files as above

Ye Gods and little fishes! I would drive slower or pay the fines.


Haha.
Haven't had a ticket in 30 years. Plus this car (company) has an insane telematics box fitted that monitors everything you do and you get snot-o-grams from HR if you drop below a certain score each day, and you can be reported for speeding by the company. They are pathetically intolerant. Go round a corner faster than 12mph - lose points. Accelerate too fast (say up to 60 in 10 seconds) - lose points. They are garbage! Many of us have bought and fitted dash cams so every day we get pulled up by HR we send them footage.

We have actual human driving assessments every 2 years at our place, with current and ex examiners. At a meeting earlier this year one guy produced his paperwork from an examiner of 22 years in the job, giving him an 'excellent pass, well above average' on his assessment, the little spy box in his car however scored the same trip at 63% = FAIL Laughing Out Loud. HR didn't know where to put themselves haha. We are still waiting their justification.......
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemesis1 wrote:
At a meeting earlier this year one guy produced his paperwork from an examiner of 22 years in the job, giving him an 'excellent pass, well above average' on his assessment, the little spy box in his car however scored the same trip at 63% = FAIL Laughing Out Loud. HR didn't know where to put themselves haha. We are still waiting their justification.......
Let us know the outcome. Very Happy
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The insane telematics in my Renault tell me my fuel consumption is 57.2 L/100km. And that I've done over 8,500 miles (whereas the funny old speedometer thing says I've done 80,000 - certainly felt like quite a few more than 8,500).

Don't you just love telematics? Very Happy
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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonight Mercedes seem to have downgraded the software back to V2.3
It was 2.4, it says so on the packet and on the sticker on the card itself. Reading various Merc forums, people seem to think that POI's etc worked on V2.3 but stopped when 2.4 was released.

Will see what if anything happens.

Had no input from the OP. Would like to hear form him.
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Papersniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemesis1 wrote:
..... Reading various Merc forums, people seem to think that POI's etc worked on V2.3 but stopped when 2.4 was released.

....


Hello, I am in the USA and just bought a 2015 C300 with the Garmin Map Pilot system. I am a pretty experienced user of "stand alone" GPSs, and I currently own several. The Map Pilot in the car is quite different and limited from the stand alone units, but then I expected that.

My big concern in loading POI files, but not the speed camera ones. In the USA that's not a concern, thankfully. However, I have many personal POI files (preferred gas stations, lat/long positions, national parks, RV campgrounds, etc) that cannot easily be loaded using the car's controls. It would be so much easier to load those POI files onto the SD card. However, I am reluctant to just pop the SD card into my PC and run Garmin's POILoader. I'm concerned that might screw up something on my 600 USD card! I did do a copy n paste from the SD card onto my PC's desktop, but I know that is not a "functional" copy due to the safeguards MB/Garmin has on the actual SD card to prevent just cloning the card.

You mentioned earlier that you'd loaded some non-speed camera POI files. Can I ask you to please list the steps you used? Although I am in the USA, I suspect the software versions of our two Map Pilots are not significantly different. I do not recall the software version on mine, but I did run MB Download Manager to verify it's up to date. IOW, I might have the 2.4 version!

Also, once loaded on the SD card, how do you display those POIs that you loaded? With my stand alone units I select something like "special waypoints" or something similar. Does the Map Pilot's screen show a distinct group of waypoints/favorites/POIs on the menu under the "Where To" section?

Thanks for the help; I cannot find much info here in the USA on the Garmin Map Pilot system. I just bought the car about 2 weeks ago, and my salesman kept referring to the GPS system as a "Becker" system. He was surprised when we opened the SD's cash and saw "Garmin" on it.
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Nemesis1
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Papersniper.

It is easy and safe to use POILoader with your card. Believe me, with the amount of playing about I have been doing, including moving some of the system files on the card around, if it was going to mess it up it would have by now.

I have moved .NDS files, deleted, edited and re-installed the Merc POI file, all without issue.

To load your own custom POI, just follow the usual POILoader procedure and have it load the .GPI file into the /Garmin/POI folder on the card.

Please note though, as I have posted above, Garmin have deliberately set this system to hide as much as possible, so you will be lucky to see any icons on the map :-(

I have raised this with Mercedes in the UK and am talking to them. They are well aware that this restriction is not popular at all! Garmin are aware also and are talking to Mercedes themselves as their reputation is taking a hammering about this system.

If you need anything else, please just ask.

:-)
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Papersniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemesis1 wrote:
Hi Papersniper.

It is easy and safe to use POILoader with your card. .......
To load your own custom POI, just follow the usual POILoader procedure and have it load the .GPI file into the /Garmin/POI folder on the card.
....:-)


Thanks very much, I appreciate that. I'll give that a try ASAP and report back if I have any problems.
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