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Insurers start penalising drivers for speed awareness course
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Insurers start penalising drivers for speed awareness course Reply with quote

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It has been discovered that some insurers are penalising drivers who choose a speed awareness course.

The course, offered by Police where the excess speed falls within a set range of speed and the driver has not completed a previous course within the last 3 years.

Police tell drivers that opting for the course instead of a fine and licence endorsement will avoid any hike in insurance premiums. This message is echoed on many police websites and drivers have also been told this at the courses.

However it appears that a number of insurers have decided that these drivers offer an identical risk to those who were fined and so, as a result, are loading premiums to match. Premiums for drivers with a speeding conviction can rise as much as 300.

Police are concerned at this move, fearing that the lack of an incentive will reduce the numbers who attend and benefit from the courses. And it's not just the police that will be worried. With 772,000 motorists attending a course in 2011 alone, the companies that operate them won't want to loose that business.

Source: BBC News

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Insurers start penalising drivers for speed awareness co Reply with quote

News Team wrote:
Police are concerned at this move, fearing that the lack of an incentive will reduce the numbers who attend and benefit from the courses. And it's not just the police that will be worried. With 772,000 motorists attending a course in 2011 alone, the companies that operate them won't want to loose that business.
I think that it's probably not so much the police that are worried but the course providers. If the cost of the course goes directly to them and the cost of the speeding fine goes to the chancellor, I wonder who is realy worried about it, not just saying that they are.
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exportman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have taken one of these course and it is quite clearly stated that you do not have to tell your insurance company. These course are only offered to road users who have only exceeded the speed limit by a few mph.

Question Question How would they know. It is not classed as a motoring conviction so they should not be able to access the information from the DVLA. At present all the forms only ask if you have had any convictions or any pending. ( I just renewed my bike insurance so used the comparison sites).

I would also say that in most cases the offence is a momentary lack of concentration or an unfamiliar road or inadequate signage. And the additional education the course provide to many people ( I was in a room of around 30 people half of them did not know the difference between a dual carriage way and a two lane road)

I think M8TJT may have a point. Especially as the government looks as if they will not increase fuel duty.
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jonbaker12345
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cost of a speed awareness course in Humberside was 150 two years ago - I've no idea if that has increased since then. I presume other police forces charge a similar amount?

If insurance companies are going to treat going on a course exactly the same as a speeding conviction then there is little point in going on a course unless you absolutely have to keep a clean driving licence.

You wouldn't be eligible for a course if close to a totting-up disqualification, so consideration of the penalty points is almost irrelevant when deciding whether to accept the course or not. Apart from the clean licence aspect, obviously.

They've not thought this all the way through. Rolling Eyes
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exportman wrote:
I have taken one of these course and it is quite clearly stated that you do not have to tell your insurance company.
It seems like the insurance company rules have changed
Quote:
Question Question How would they know.
They possibly wouldn't. But if they did find out, you would probably be uninsured by virtue of non-disclosure, especially if they had directly asked you.
Quote:

I would also say that in most cases the offence is a momentary lack of concentration or an unfamiliar road or inadequate signage.
That's what everyond caught speeding says. Unfortunately that particular flag does not fly.
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Wazza_G
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insurance companies are just like Scamera's they're only here to do one thing.

MAKE MONEY! Twisted Evil
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't that why every business trys to do Shocked
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exportman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Quote:

I would also say that in most cases the offence is a momentary lack of concentration or an unfamiliar road or inadequate signage.
That's what everyond caught speeding says. Unfortunately that particular flag does not fly.


I had meant the only a couple of MPH over ones. Unless you spend all you time watching the speedo your speed will vary a little no matter how good you think your perception of speed is. Round Tameside many of the cameras are painted green so they blend in with the trees Exclamation The nice people have positioned one a few hundred yards before a NSL sign (30 to 60) just to keep you on your toes ( as a concession they painted this one yellow Shocked ) Mind you most of the time cars pass this at around 10 mph anyway
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Philip
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Insurers start penalising drivers for speed awareness co Reply with quote

News Team wrote:
However it appears that a number of insurers have decided that these drivers offer an identical risk to those who were fined and so, as a result, are loading premiums to match.

Shouldn't that read "However it appears that a number of insurers have decided that these drivers offer an identical opportunity from which to extract even more money to those who were fined and so, as a result, are loading premiums to match."
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Naomi
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it seems obvious that those taking the course will have had a much narrower margin of speed over and above the limit, than those who were not given the opportunity of going on a course. So it is nonsense for the insurance industry to say the risks are identical.
It is all a bit statistical anyway, how lucky, or unlucky you have been if you do occasionally drift over the limit. Are those using speed camera warning systems more dangerous on the road than those who don't? I try hard to stay within the limit. But I also know people who use the camera warning systems as a means to just slow down near the cameras. Are they a higher insurance risk....probably. Might a future insurance question be: "do you use a camera warning system?"
Is there a case for using a (compulsory?) system that just beeps if you exceed the local limit, ignoring cameras? and would that attract an increased premium? Surely the converse should apply to one who is taking such an additional anti-speeding pill.
I have successfully fought off 3 speed camera convictions, each for being "just over the limit" but it has left me quite paranoid about cameras. I try to always drive within the limits these days, but still believe it would be safer to be able to drive at a speed that my experience tells me is safe, rather than driving to the numbers and clock watching so much. Sadly we are stuck with a one size fits all approach.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naomi wrote:
Is there a case for using a (compulsory?) system that just beeps if you exceed the local limit, ignoring cameras?
Nice idea? that would possibly be even better if the map speed limit data were more accurate.
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Grimster
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exportman wrote:


Round Tameside many of the cameras are painted green so they blend in with the trees


Hi Exportman, they're council cameras and not enforceable, they were put in there to 'burn the budget' about 8 years ago, no-one has ever (or can ever as they're unlawful) be fined, they're about controlling the traffic.

The council's website says:

Tameside wrote:
A system of data collection cameras that enable traffic engineers to build up speed profiles of the road covered. This enables the Council to identify speed hotspots and take the necessary action. They can also be used to help identify regular speeding offenders.

The cameras also contain an overview camera that may be used for general public safety reasons.

The cameras are painted in the appropriate civic colours.


Hope that helps.

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/speedcameras
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that infomation Grimster. What a refreshing breath of fresh air.

I read that as Tameside are using technology to increase road safety as opposed to increasing revenue.

Good to know that there is at least one honorable Local Authority left.
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Grimster
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong there are still plenty of enforceable cameras in Tameside, just not the blue, brown and green ones is all.

Bit OT anyway, back to your usual scheduling I guess.
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Rowan29a
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Oliver! Reply with quote

Insurance companies, the Government and Councils are just modern day Fagins. Charles Dickens would be proud of 'em! Rolling Eyes
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