TomTom - Third party POI alerts are no more

[DennisN]

I'm arriving late in this topic - unless I'm wrong, you didn't ban anybody whilst I was away in Corfu, so instead you drop this bombshell for me to come home to.

I'm devastated. I've been using TomToms since my first satnav in 2005 and the pgpsw database from about a month after I got that. They go together. I've lost count of how many I've owned. My current list of devices I own is as follows...

Navigator 6 on HTC Advantage (map 675).
GO 700 (with map 675).
XL Live IQ Map 850
GO 520 (RDS-TMC) Map 850
GO 550 Live Map 850
Due to a change in specification, about to be joined by an inbuilt Carminat TomTom in my new van (1st August).

I don't use them all, all the time (I've only got four sockets anyway - no screwdriver hands on me!), but I ALWAYS use three as protection against loss of signal or signal bounce when I'm in London (and to see if I get alternative routing offers).

The audible POI warnings (and countdowns) are very valuable to me - I try to watch the road, so to spot the small icons on the map would be too much to ask of me.

So if TT disable POI warnings, the Carminat will be the last TT I buy (to be fair, I didn't buy it - it was a £590 +vat optional extra which I didn't order, but since ordering, it has been included in the spec).

I'll be looking for another device which does the same as the TT but does provide POI warnings. Maybe McGuider. I'll have to start paying attention to other people's recommendations.

Now I think I'll scroll back to the email address for that lady at TT to send a grump to.
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Dennis
No TT MapShare (voluntarily), HD Traffic (involuntarily)
TT Support 08451610009 - A) issue, B) challenge, C) problem, D) cockup

[DeLorean]

[dsouter]

I wrote

Hi
Can you please tell me what the situation with 3rd party poi warnings is and why you are undertaking this change in policy. I am disturbed to read that it is Tom Tom's intention to stop allowing these. I, like a majority of your UK customers use the PGPS cameras and other P'sOI with warnings and find this an excellent safety feature. The PGPS cameras are also up to date unlike the Tom Tom cameras which are, quite frankly an insult to anyone who buys them. They are inacurate and out of date. I would be grateful if you could advise me of the impact your change in policy might have now using my TT930T, and in the future if I decide to upgrade my PND. Will I be able to purchase a quality, accurate camera database like PGPS at a reasonable price which will allow warnings.

Many thanks
Duncan
The reply from TomTom is:
Dear Mr Souter,


My name is Richard and I am happy to help you with your query.

The reference number for your query is 100713-008667.

Thanks for your email and the answer is fairly simple, we can not support software we did not design. This has always been TomTom's policy about 3rd party software. It is not TomTom's responsibility to make someone else's software work with their machines, it is the responsibility of the 3rd party company who created the software.

The POI's warnings may work, but they may not, and because we did not design them and know how they work, we can not support them or their installation.. You would need to contact the company who created the POI's to ask them about the installation of the software they have made for the TomTom devices.

If you do have any further questions or need further support please do not hesitate to contact me back and i will be more than happy to help you further.

With Kind Regards

Richard

The TomTom Customer Care Team
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never mind eh!!!

go 1005

[aj2052]

Rather a Negative answer and no response whatsover on removing a facility that they already allow (support).
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Asus a696 Win6, TTN7.450, UK725.1871
HTC Desire HD Sygic 12.2.2,TT 1.1
Acer Iconia A500, Sygic 12.2.2

[DeLorean]

[Horatio]

For shame, I haven't read all ten pages so far. I've skimmed the first six or so, so I apologise if I'm repeating things that I don't realise I'm repeating.

Firstly, surely this behaviour is anti-competitive, and aren't there laws against that? People have come to expect 3rd party POI warning as an integrated part of a PND unit, even if it's via third-party add-on software. Locking this functionality to TomTom's own data is giving the company a deliberate and unfair advantage over third-parties trying to offer the same service. I bet they're not doing this in America, because they'd be fined millions faster than you could say "class action suit."

Secondly (and I know I'm repeating others here.) TomTom's own speed camera data is pathetic. Like some others here, I've run the two side-by-side. It doesn't know most of the cameras on the A90 up to Aberdeen, and they've been there for donkey's years. I'm sure TomTom know that their data will never be as good as the PocketGPS ones, because they don't offer an incentive to keep the data up to date. Be the first to add a valid new camera location here, and you get a free membership for life. From TomTom, you don't even get a thank-you. Perhaps this is the result of the penny dropping: They can only compete with PocketGPS by being anti-competitive.

If they're going to restrict some of their units in this manner, then it should be written clearly on the box, simply because people expect custom POI warnings to be a standard feature of a TomTom branded unit. I suspect they're baulking at the free (on your phone) sat-nav solutions that are on offer and are attempting to go down the route of the games console market by selling the units at below market value and making their profits out of subscriptions. If they let PocketGPS sell the cameras through their 'app store' then that would work too, but I suspect they'll take another leaf out of Apple's book and refuse to sell anything that replicates some of their own functionality.

Finally, I agree that it's very short-sighted of them to think that POI warnings are just about speed cameras. The TomTom software in my car has a 'safety feature' that will alert me when near schools or religious establishments. Surely if TomTom have thought of this themselves, then they must realise that POI warnings have other uses. My favourite use is to have TT warn me when I'm within 1 mile of a Tesco petrol station. I've switched to collecting their points from Nectar, because if you use the rewards vouchers, you get nearly ten times as much back as you do on the Nectar loyalty scheme. Presumably the system in my current car is safe from having this stupidity retro-enforced, but the same may not be true on the next car that I buy
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TomTom GO700
Renault Carminat TomTom
TrafficMaster YQ2 (now forcibly retired, and sadly missed.)

[Daggers]

If you want to take it further with TomTom, you should stop using the term "3rd party". This will also apply to any additional POIs that you create yourself. These are not 3rd party POIs - they are POIs created by the software that is supplied (and presumably supported) by TomTom themselves.

They are removing original functionality that has nothing to do with 3rd parties whatsoever.
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TomTom Go 550 Live
App 9.465, UK & ROI Map v 905.4754

[DennisN]

Forget "POIs" and "Warnings". I'm just using a few bitmaps like TT do and a few sounds, also like TT do. It's rubbish for TT to say they can't support them!

They promote that I can use bitmaps and jpegs to have my own pictures on my device. They promote that I can have sound files to play "The Wheels on the Bus" and on my device. What's the difference? I could use "Baa, baa Black Sheep" to give me audible warning of an approaching TomTom Safety Camera.
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Dennis
No TT MapShare (voluntarily), HD Traffic (involuntarily)
TT Support 08451610009 - A) issue, B) challenge, C) problem, D) cockup

[JaTe]

I got the same response as dsouter, but in a telephone conversation with TTCS 'Laura' namely "We don't support 3rd party software as we can't verify it".

Try as I could to get her to accept that I was purely talking about their decision to stop supporting audible warnings against our POI sets seemed beyond her remit of allowed responses and in the end I gave up.

She was however quite happy to promote MapShare and the new mapping feature - afterall I really need the map to show me when I am in a forest, when I can see trees all around me - I think not and particularly when they can't even get Thetford Forest properly delineated, despite the years that it has been growing there.

Sorry TT but you aren't taking note of your customers and that will undoubtedly come back to haunt you at some future time.
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John.

[David86]

Just cancelled my PGPSW subscription and sent my money to TomTom, sorry PGPSW!

[PaulB2005]

[alanf]

Although illogical and inaccurate, I think the customer service line they repeat gives an idea where TomTom are coming from.

It's not about their revenue selling camera data, to be awkward or directly to reduce the functionality. It's actually about the cost of support. Margins on sat nav must be relatively tight given that the headline price includes retail margins, licensed map data and hardware that they pay an increasing number of USD for out of EUR revenue.

In short they are looking to cut costs. Paying customer service to talk thousands of technically naive users through setting up the units is just not covered by the margins they make. So the practical route is to turn the units into appliances, you cannot customise them any more than you would a washing machine. They are increasingly looking to sell in numbers to make up for what they may lose to smart phones. That means more units sold to people who will expect to turn them on and go. When the map or pois are out of date, buy another.

Those of us who like to customise or script will go elsewhere, they don't want our business because it's not profitable. I'm not excusing it but it's a rational response and it's a common theme that we hear a lot in large companies, the marketing people want to add functionality, the finance people say not if it's going to cost. Finance usually wins.
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Acer n35, Destinator 3.0.75, Destinator 6

[dsouter]

I wrote

if the answer is so simple, please share it with me. your answer relates to a question I didn't ask so instead of trying to be smart and smug offer some proper customer service and address the points I raised.

Many thanks
Duncan

TomTom replied
Dear Mr Souter,

The reference number for your query is 100713-008667.

I would like to sincerely apologise as I did misread your last email and made an incorrect assumption.

As customer support we have not have been informed of any intentions to stop the use of 3rd party POI's with the TomTom devices.

I can see no reason to stop the installation of POI's in future on devices that already use them, such as the Go 930. Hope this clarifies things for you.

With Kind Regards

Richard

The TomTom Customer Care Team.

---------------------------------------------
I have replied to TomTom again as they say nothing about the warnings.

the quest continues
Duncan
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never mind eh!!!

go 1005

[Wazza_G]

I know I'm joining in late but this decision by TT has lead me to make a decision..

My TT720 is coming up for retirement & death (Battery), so I'll be looking at getting the Garmin 3790 instead of a TT, the only thing that puts me off it at the moment is a review on Amazon that says...

[Guivre46]

I'm sorry to have to agree with alanf, I've recently read a couple of reviews by Start2 users. Both say that when they researched satnavs on the net, they were initially put off Tomtom by all the technical problems and complaints they read about. Having bought the Start2s they were very pleased to find it simple to use with no technical problems. Perhaps we need to be a bit more positive about why we keep buying Tomtoms despite our grouches, or we just reinforce this move to simplification?
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
Go 550 Live
Go 530T
One XLT WE