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Darren
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
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 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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MaFt's comments were tongue in cheek as I'm sure you realise. The why's and wherefore's of the whole speeding debate have been done to death, yes if you drive but 1mph over the limit then you are committing an offence but the point is that is is increasingly difficult to drive within the law and all too easy to stray outside those limits and face a fine.
I'm a Police Class 1 driver and motorcyclist as well as a GEM, RoSPA and IAM member but I could never claim I always heeded speed limits. if I choose to knowingly exceed a posted limit because I consider the road and conditions safe to do so then if I get caught i have only myself to blame.
If however a Safety Partnership van captures me a few miles per hour over the limit then I may well have cause to feel I have been wronged. The vans are frequently themselves more hazardous than my driving a few mph over a limit, those limits are often poorly signed and the increase in other signs and distractions make it very hard at times to be aware of a limit.
Few other laws can be so easily breached accidentally. IMHO anyone who claims never to have exceeded a speed limit is a liar. It is this that is at the root of the whole debate and I would add that even my ex-fellow colleagues have much to dislike about the plague of Gatso's et al.
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Anita
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, it seems that neither GJF
| GJF wrote: | Sorry teacher,
I can't spell, that should read exiting
Thanks, can i go to the toilet now. |
nor classy56
| classy56 wrote: | | MaFt wrote: |
it got them to the lights quicker  and it got them in front of you  :D
MaFt |
And it will get them a loss of license quicker and an early grave quicker and a smack in the mouth quicker from someone less tolerant than me.
tut tut for a team member I expected better |
has a sense of humour!
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Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1125.12264
Samsung Galaxy S21 |
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Border_Collie
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 2543
Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Don't leave me out Anita, I haven't had much 'flake' lately.
I'm still thinking of the exciting bit and motorway exits. :P Ooooh 
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Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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Border_Collie
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 2543
Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just had a thought. Could we have a camera database for cameras catching the exciting bits on camera? :P
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Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | | MaFt's comments were tongue in cheek |
Maybe the team should add an extra disclaimer when they post:
SMILEYS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE HUMOUR IMPAIRED.
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Gone fishing! |
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Anita
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Lost_Property wrote: | Don't leave me out Anita, I haven't had much 'flake' lately.
I'm still thinking of the exciting bit and motorway exits. :P Ooooh |
What you do with your flake is your business, LP. 
Just make sure there are no cameras around to record the exciting bits. 
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Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
UK map 1125.12264
Samsung Galaxy S21 |
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Border_Collie
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 2543
Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | What you do with your flake is your business, LP.
Just make sure there are no cameras around to record the exciting bits. |
If there are I will probably get some 'flack' because of the exiting bit. :P
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Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar. |
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classy56
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 441
Location: Dorset
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | MaFt's comments were tongue in cheek as I'm sure you realise. The why's and wherefore's of the whole speeding debate have been done to death, yes if you drive but 1mph over the limit then you are committing an offence but the point is that is is increasingly difficult to drive within the law and all too easy to stray outside those limits and face a fine.
I'm a Police Class 1 driver and motorcyclist as well as a GEM, RoSPA and IAM member but I could never claim I always heeded speed limits. if I choose to knowingly exceed a posted limit because I consider the road and conditions safe to do so then if I get caught i have only myself to blame.
If however a Safety Partnership van captures me a few miles per hour over the limit then I may well have cause to feel I have been wronged. The vans are frequently themselves more hazardous than my driving a few mph over a limit, those limits are often poorly signed and the increase in other signs and distractions make it very hard at times to be aware of a limit.
Few other laws can be so easily breached accidentally. IMHO anyone who claims never to have exceeded a speed limit is a liar. It is this that is at the root of the whole debate and I would add that even my ex-fellow colleagues have much to dislike about the plague of Gatso's et al. |
I was going to reply to the other garbage that was posted in this thread, but if you and the other members of admin support the obvious majority opinion that speeding is ok and its all the fault of the camera then I don't see the point in trying to debate the issue.
I have NEVER said I agree with the plague of gatsos etc, in fact quite the opposite.
I have never said I have never exceeded the speed limit, so I'm not a liar as you imply.
The only argument that I have is excessive speeding is wrong and no different than drink driving or any other premeditated offence, and that if the cameras are cash machines then that is the fault of the motorist who are unwilling to take responsobility for their own wrong actions.
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Tomtom Go730T
App 8.300
Map v815.2003
To old to die young. |
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Border_Collie
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 2543
Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm a Police Class 1 driver and motorcyclist as well as a GEM, RoSPA and IAM member |
| Quote: | | imits are often poorly signed and the increase in other signs and distractions make it very hard at times to be aware of a limit. |
Speechless!
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Formerly known as Lost_Property
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GJF
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Joined: Feb 08, 2007
Posts: 894
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Anita, sorry you thought i didn't have a sense of humour, :D my comment WAS humour in my own warped way,  I am glad that exciting gave so much fun to an otherwise boring topic.
To all of the others on this thread, great topic, now this has reasonably ceased, what's the next one to discuss? 8)
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Anita
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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OK GJF. I just found it amusing, and thought you were taking it as criticism, which it wasn't meant to be.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. 
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Anita
TomTom VIA 135 - App 12.075
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mrg2003
Regular Visitor
Joined: 12/03/2003 18:19:15
Posts: 136
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: whinger |
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| 80flo wrote: | | How many times have I (and you!) been driving along, looked in your rear view mirror, realised that a police car had driven up behind you, then looked at your speedometer and realised you were doing 32mph. result £60. + points. Is what I have just done the action of a criminal? |
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you can't operate your car, ie keep to the speed limit, maybe you shouldn't be driving. |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15134
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| classy56 wrote: |
I was going to reply to the other garbage that was posted in this thread, but if you and the other members of admin support the obvious majority opinion that speeding is ok and its all the fault of the camera then I don't see the point in trying to debate the issue.
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i think the point that darren has been trying to make is that going slightly over the limit by a few miles an hour in 99% of cases is not dangerous and would be ignored by a human copper or, if anything, a slight warning given. however, speed camera's are not human and are unable to think so you get the instant fine even though it was probably not dangerous.
yes, it IS still breaking the law but with a human officer who can actually consider the situation the punishment can be fairly decided - i.e. if it was not dangerous then no punishment is due other than a warning. a machine cannot do that, and that's his main issue with them.
on the flip-side, driving excessively over the limit a machine may well be more 'lenient' i.e. only giving £60 and 3 points, where as a human officer would have the grey-matter to be able to see that they endangered the lives of the small family who were just using the zebra crossing further down that the speeding driver also failed to stop at...
my opinion is that they have their pro's and cons. one being that the police can concentrate on other crimes but the big con, in most peoples eyes, is the fact that they are machines that cannot think and, being electronic, everything is either true or false with no grey area in between...
MaFt |
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Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | | yes, it IS still breaking the law but with a human officer who can actually consider the situation the punishment can be fairly decided - i.e. if it was not dangerous then no punishment is due other than a warning. a machine cannot do that, and that's his main issue with them. |
I think that sums up a lot of people's opinions. Cameras are a blunt instrument when it comes to enforcement. People can (and do) drive up to them at a speed vastly in excess of the limit, overtake dangerously, brake hard for the detection zone and then speed up again.
Yet, the same camera will book someone exceeding the speedlimit on an empty road in the middle of the night with no other traffic around.
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mostdom
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Posts: 1964
Location: Surrey, UK.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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I heared one news report refer to mobile phones in this legislation as HAND HELD DEVICES. If that is the case that could be deemed to incude most GPS devises as they are not permenantly fixed (grey area) and some have batteries for HAND HELD use. IF not yet it is just one step away from it.
Does any one know if this is the case?
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Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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