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21% saying their father drove too fast.
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philpugh
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Joined: Dec 28, 2005
Posts: 2003
Location: Antrobus, Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years ago (10+) the firm I worked for had us go on a 'defensive' driving course in order to reduce their company car insurance premiums. This was a full day of 3 people + instructor (ex motorway cop and really good trainer) doing a mix of high speed and town driving. Most of this took part in the Derbyshire/Yorkshire Pennine area. We were introduced to some practices, which I still use today, for overtaking. The most alarming (the first time you had it done to you) was when he (the instructor) asked you if you could see if it was clear to overtake. When you said you couldn't tell he got hold of the steering wheel and moved you out towards the opposite side of road and repeated the question! Basically what he was doing was saying that it's OK to look - just don't change your speed until you can see if it's safe - a lot of accidents are caused by people speeding up and comitting themselves before/as they are pulling out. Still pretty alarming though! Another tip was to watch the apex of a bend as you go into it. For 99% of bends if the apex appears to be moving towards you as you enter the bend then you are approaching to fast. Difficult to explain - I use the term apex to describe the apparent vanishing point of the bend. Have a look the next time you are on a fast twisty road - we were on the notorious A57 (Snake Pass road).

Well worth the day out though - the bit about talking your way through town driving - i.e describing what you were looking at and what your actions were going to be was especially difficult.
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philpugh wrote:
...i.e describing what you were looking at and what your actions were going to be was especially difficult...


Running Commentry. It is a little difficult, although there is one interesting thing about having a go at RC, and that is if your driving overtakes your commentry, you are driving too fast for your own abilities???

Have a go on your way to work! Wink
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Dom

HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
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Border_Collie
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Joined: Feb 01, 2006
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Location: Rainham, Kent. England.

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and that is if your driving overtakes your commentry, you are driving too fast for your own abilities???
But your mouth will never be as quick as your brain is. E.g. Try decribing how you change from 3rd to 4th gear and you'll find you've done it before you've finished talking about it.

When I was training to be a bus driver I wasn't asked to give a commentary but asked now and then 'What was the last road sign we passed'? If someone couldn't remember, or didn't know, he would make them stop, get out, and walk back to read the sign. On your return he would shout 'Observation, observation, observation'.

After the driving part of the test, the examiner would instead of showing you a road sign and asking you what it meant, would say e.g. 'describe the sign indicating a roundabout'. (without using your hands).

Try it. Wink

Quote:
asked you if you could see if it was clear to overtake. When you said you couldn't tell he got hold of the steering wheel and moved you out towards the opposite side of road and repeated the question! Basically what he was doing was saying that it's OK to look - just don't change your speed until you can see if it's safe


WHAT!!! If you couldn't tell, he certainly couldn't tell from the passenger side.

Hanging back always gives a clearer view of the road and if clear there is a chance to start building speed ready for the manoeuvre.

IF IN DOUBT, DON'T PULL OUT.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mostdom wrote:
Running Commentry. Have a go on your way to work! Wink


I tried this but it's impossible on a bike (certainly in London traffic). Confused

I'm not sure why the IAM advocate the running commentary. Maybe they think it is useful because people (including me when I'm driving slowly or in heavy traffic) can often let their mind wander while they are driving a car and it forces them to keep 100% concentration on the job of driving. Anyone know for sure?

On a bike there is no such problem, you pretty much keep 100% concentration because there are so many things to watch out for.

I tried keeping a count of all the things I would comment on. Within a minute, I'd counted 30 things - most of these are things that a car driver would be oblivious to because they present little or no risk to them whereas to a biker they can cause serious difficulties.
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mostdom
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lost_Property wrote:
But your mouth will never be as quick as your brain is. E.g. Try decribing how you change from 3rd to 4th gear and you'll find you've done it before you've finished talking about it.


Your brain can think much faster than you can talk, certainly! But how much is auto pilot. The principal of RC is not to describe every motion or action but the simple important facts that you see and the simple reaction you must take. e.g I see the road is wet, so I will slow down a little, and give a little distance to the car in front. To say this and do this would take the same amount of time. If you did this same manouver without saying it, would you have understood why you did it? The better you become at RC the quicker your responces become to external stimulus.

If you drive faster than you can sucessfully commentate on your own driving, you are driving too fast.
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Dom

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mostdom
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
I'm not sure why the IAM advocate the running commentary...


The RC is not a nessesity of the final advanced test any more, probably because some people have difficulty with it on a whole, let alone in stressful test conditions. One reason would be for the examiner who can see and understand your thought prosses when you drive.

In general it is a gauge for yourself. If you try it every now and then you are at best reasuring your road knowlage.

Don't commentate with freinds and family in the car, or at traffic lights, as some might think of you as a satilite short of a GPS signal. :D
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Dom

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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The principal of RC is not to describe every motion or action but the simple important facts that you see and the simple reaction you must take. e.g I see the road is wet, so I will slow down a little, and give a little distance to the car in front.


As far as I'm concerned no facts are simple, every one is important. While noticing it is wet and I will slow down a little, I'm also observing the car behind and maybe a person waiting to cross the road with an umbrella up. Is the person behind too close, can the pedetrian see/hear me or will the umbrella cause him problems. Have I got to change down because I'm about to go up/down a hill?

Quote:
If you drive faster than you can sucessfully commentate on your own driving, you are driving too fast.


Too many things to notice, not enough time to talk about it.

Better observations are.

When driving on an apparent wet road during the winter months, if the road looks wet and you can hear your tyres, you're in the wet. If it looks wet but you can't hear it, you're probably on black ice. Ideal time to use the gears to slow down.

When driving in the Autumn and the road is covered/partially covered by fallen leaves, they may look dry on top but underneath will be very slippery.

When travelling at a safe distance from the car in front, keep a check on the underneath of his car, if the car in front of him brakes you will see the reflection of his stop lights on the road.
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